Is weight the only factor that makes one shingle last longer then another brand? basically if you have the exact underlayments on three exact houses, vented the exact way all facing the same direction is the weight of the shingle the only thing that makes one last longer then the lighter one?
You guys are probably thinking I am thinking too much into this but I am deciding what shingle i want on my house. I have pretty much nailed my choices down to either a Tamko Heritage, or the certainteed landmark. I noticed on tamkos web site they dont publish how much they weigh/sq. i called tech services and they would not give me the exact number but they said they are about
Heritage30,AR=235lb/sq
Heritage40,AR=275lb/sq
Heritage50,AR=305lb/sq
From the post's I have read I dont think it will last 40 or 50 years, but I have heard the thicker ones look better, I just dont know if the extra cost is worth it.
Go with the Landmarks hands down. I have used both. Certainteed at least stands behind their warranty. We have never gotten a warranty claim on Tamko's. Certainteed has paid many times. Also, Certainteed is American.
Go with the Landmarks, you won't be disappointed. Great shingle for the money. As far as weight determining longevity, yes that is the biggest factor,but each manufacturer has different formulas for making their shingle. Probably has to do with patents or something.
I have figured out the best value several times for clients. For the most part, I wouldn't pay the extra for the 50 year. The jump in price per square is just too much for the extra life. I usually will recommend a 30 year laminate or 35 year 3-tab, but we hardly use 3-tabs anymore because the laminates have really come close to the price of 3-tabs. Besides, it's less labor to install laminates and less waste.
Figure about 20 years out of a 25 year shingle
25 for a 30 year
30 for a 35 year
35 for a 40 year
40 for a 50 year
Go with the Landmarks hands down. I have used both. Certainteed at least stands behind their warranty. We have never gotten a warranty claim on Tamko's. Certainteed has paid many times. Also, Certainteed is American.
I agree with you and MJW. Certainteed is actually an American corporation owned by a French conglomerate.
I like Tamko and certainTeed. Yes CertainTeed has paid warranty claims, but I haven't had one yet with tamko, so I'd prefer not have a warranty claim than have someone who stands behind theirs. Anyways the only failures we have had is with their sealdons and hallmarks. Sealdons are almost a moot point since they have been replaced by the fiberglass shingles and the hallmarks have been re-engineered. On the back end CertainTeed offers ALOT of support in the form of training.
Landmarks are made in Shakopee, MN. Used to be made in Ohio. Maybe I should have clarified. Tamko, I thought, are made in Canada??? They are 36" shingle right? I haven't used them in years.
Yes........
What's the difference? The one who pays is what matters, isn't it. This is just my experiences. Certainteed has a rep in our area, but doesn't come out too often. Just doesn't need to.
Landmarks are made in Shakopee, MN. Used to be made in Ohio. Maybe I should have clarified. Tamko, I thought, are made in Canada??? They are 36" shingle right? I haven't used them in years.
Yes........
What's the difference? The one who pays is what matters, isn't it. This is just my experiences. Certainteed has a rep in our area, but doesn't come out too often. Just doesn't need to.
My tamko rep lives less than 10 mins from me and the certainteed rep is 30 minutes away. The tamko rep will come out and take care of the problem at the drop of the hat. The certainteed rep will send out the claims kit and let you do all the leg work for them...oh they will pay you 50bucks
All shingle manufacturers have multiple plants across north america including canada. My tamko's come out of MN. They could possible have a Canadian plant as well.
No shingle weight is not the only factor in determining the quality of the shingle. Asphalt of Fiberglass? How is the weight acheived? Excessive granuals or thick heavy saturated matts which offer stability and reinforcement.
Compare a GAF Timberline 30 to a GAF timberline 40, and there is damned near no dofference. Now Compare a GAF timberline 30 to a GAF GRAND Timberline and you will see a pronounce difference. Same thing witha Certainteed Landmark 30 and a Landmark 40, they look the same. Now comapre a landmark 30 to a Landmark Tri-Laminate (TL) Wow! If you are going to buy a thicker heavier shingle buy it only for looks... and in that case you buy a premium architectural instead of a standard architectural.
With regard to Tamko v Certainteed I would vote Certainteed . The name Tamko was short for texas,arkansas,missori,kansas,oklahoma, the states they originally marketed to.
My Certainteeds in SE Mi come from Avery. My Tamkos come from both Joplin and Fredricksburg, I think.
Also the Tamko's I get aren't exactly "standard". The Heritage measures 37" wide. The Elites, while 36" wide have an exposure of 5 1/8" rather than the standard 5". That extra 1/8" is importent when doing a count down. :thumbsup:
In my area the Tamko's have Algae Relief standard in all their shingles, where the certainteed do have AR available, but it is special order and costs more... You can't even special order the GAF AR in my area, though they sell it in other areas. The AR is just an added bonus, for the same price IMO.
Plus I like Tamko's variety of color choices on their Architectural (heritage) shingles. Tamko has 17 heritage colors, Certainteed has 10 landmark colors.
I want to know where I stated anything incorrect. Certainteed is made in the US. I ASKED if Tamko was made in Canada.
Have you had an entire roof covered by Tamko for faulty shingles? I haven't. Don't say "They don't have faulty shingles", because they all have bad ones.
I did not know Tamko has AR standard. I don't use them and very few places sell them here.
Monkey, you haven't stated anything that we didn't already know.
I believe Landmark 30's are either 245lb or 255lb a square.
How come here in the roofing section it is all competition? Everyone thinks they know more than the next guy. They are shingles. We get paid to put them down. I have been in the business for over 10 years now. Dad has been for 25+ years.
As of Jan 1st 2006 certainteed Landmark series are all Algae resistance,
They are 13 1/4 X 38 3/4 From the Avery Plant. They do have 10 different
colors in LM AR and LM plus (30-40 year) but offer 15 colors in LM Premium(50)
They are also 5 5/8" to the weather on there Metric LM Series.
The Weight of a Shingle is determined by the backcoating that is applied,
The heavier the shingle the more backcoating. The top coating is always
the same, or the Granuales would pressed thru the asphalt and you would
see black asphalt spots on the shingles. Tri Laminates are heavier, Thicker
and give you the LOOK of Shake shingles. But also carry the heavier price.
If your looking for a Shingle thats going to last 50 years. someone else
is going to be looking at it in 50 years, and its not going to matter to you so
buy what you like color wize and what you can afford price wize and have
it installed by a contractor who will install it right and not void the warrentee
by,not nailing in the nail lines, or racking a Laminate shingle, Most Shingle
companys list on every bundle how to lay that shingle and will stand by it
if it is done according to Specks. So Its the Buyers market and you can
can put a Roof on that you can afford and it will last as long as the next
Owner wants it to.
Go with the Landmarks hands down. I have used both. Certainteed at least stands behind their warranty. We have never gotten a warranty claim on Tamko's. Certainteed has paid many times. Also, Certainteed is American.
Here in Oklahoma, I have been in construction for years and have never seen a claim paid on a roof by Tamko or Cert. Hail always gets them first.....I cannot state as a fact they don't pay in Oklahoma, just that I have never seen it happen. Roofing is a big business here during storm season, and when I began doing metal roofs, we quit shingles completely. Haven't had to replace a metal roof yet, knock on wood.
Certainteed is a French company they got big in the northeast after they bought out Bird. I like there Grand Manors,Carrige House and the Hatteras but dislike Landmarks, just dont like there look. GAF Timberline and Elk and Owens Corning make a better laminate.
IKO and BP are Canadian based and the quality is hit or miss.
Roof American with Americans
I'll agree somewhat with this statement. Only in the last few years has GAF had a decent shingle. They had alot of problems with them cracking and being way too dry. Elks are nice, but very rocky. Looks like a hail storm hit when you looks in the gutters after installing them. Owens Corning....Wow I was really surprised they had a decent Laminate. Their 3 tabs and GAF 3 tabs are about the worst shingle on the planet.
Landmarks had a few short term problems with the widetracks, but was fixed very quickly. We sell Landmarks and Elks almost 10:1 compared to timberlines. Just too many problems in the past with them. If I was choosing, I wouldn't mind any of the brands mentioned, except Tamko. I would just go for my color choice.
Tamko is certainly American as its name is derived from its original location in the US. T=Texas A=Arkansas M=Missouri K=Kansas O=Oklahoma. Just a little trivia for you. Certainteed is a French owned company that manufacturers some products in the US.
It is my opinion that your ability to get a warranty payout is solely based on your relationship with the Manufacturers rep and your volume of use.
Additionally, most shingles made these days are vastly superior to what was made even 10yrs ago. The quality is dependant on your local plant. Each manufacturer has its problem plants.
Many years ago ( on a planet far, far away) it was demonstrated that the amount of filler used in the construction of a shingle would impact the weight. (Makes sense to me). A certain amount of filler is needed to stabilize the asphalt in the shingle. However, during the time when shingle weight was used as a marketing tool, some companies would load their product a little heavier to give them an advantage.
My father showed me a picture of a 3 sq stack of Fry shingles next to a competitor. The competitor,s stack showed about one bundle higher. However, it was the Fry shingle which weighed more. The difference was in the amount of (limestone?) filler used in the competition's shingle.
Shingle weight today probably is a better indicator of longevity, but "back in the day" you had to be really careful about that claim.
Wow, SM, Grumpy, RRD, so this is where the gang moved to, eh?
Great info here, I work and chase storms Hail mostly I only put on GAF/ELK Products and include a 20 year labor and Material warr on each home, I have been very happy with GAF/ELK line, and have yet had a problem. Just my 2 cents
Although this post is more than 3 years old, I am wondering how you can give a 20 year warranty if you chase hail storms. Are you really going to go back to a house in Oklahoma that has a problem when you are working in Tennessee? I doubt it. Is it really just a selling point to scam uninformed homeowners?
I've cleaned up work for guys like this before with our storms. Some of them pay our price, some just leave the HO stranded. Either way, still a fly-by-night, IMO.
Yes. Before I go into a fresh storm i research codes pricing etc and once i land at that storm i set up shop and hire local people and stay there for the duration while trying to grow our company at the same time, seems to work out well for me so far I try to set up a perm shop in 2 states a year.
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