Condensation Lawsuit?

Travis

Ok. I'm back at it with a homeowner who is trying to get me to pay her $13,000.00 to replace her roof & damaged ceiling. She tried my insurance, her insurance, bbb, now it is on to the attorney general. She will not give up and neither will I. We reroofed this house 3 years ago, she calls about a leak and notice she has a cathedral ceiling with 2x6 rafter construction with r-19 tightly packed against the plywood(no airspace at all). She is saying I should have put a ridgevent in. We replaced all existing vents with new. We didn't tear off(they didn't want to pay the extra cost). Even if I put a ridgevent in, it would still condensate(probably worse with a ridgevent). So no matter what I did, I would be in this situation. Any suggestions or anyone else dealt with this before(original cost was $4,800.00)

Attached Thumbnails

     

rbsremodeling

I would have put a ridge vent in. Where is the plumbing vent pipe on the left where the boot is? What is the sheathing material??

If it is a tongue groove or 1x material the second layer of shingles is not allowing the roof to breathe like before.

I am no roofing pro.

__________________

mdshunk

I think she has a legitimate gripe with you.

Chris Johnson

I don't see any vents at all, except for the ridgevent in the house in the background.

What is in your contract? Did you document prior to starting the work the issues?

Remember in the eyes of the law you are the professional and it is your job to advise the client prior to starting work of any issues that could cause a problem and doing so in writing and having them sign and acknowledge it is your best defence.

If it's in the hands of the AG, you must respond, even though your insurance company has told this person to sloff off, name them and have them served as well, make them respond with their reason of denying the claim. You don't and the AG decides to proceed against you, you want the insurance company there as well, that's what you pay them for.

There is more to this story than what you are telling us.

__________________
Chris

Travis

She has no airspace in the rafter cavities. Ridgevent would do absolutely nothing.

She would have to remove all drywall and insulation, fur the 2x6's to 2x10 size, add baffles with r-30 insulation and re-drywall.

They declined a tear off and additional vents, they thought is was fine the way it was.

No, I did not document. My young, dumb mistake at the time.

rbsremodeling

So what do you think would alleviate the condensation problem she is having?

__________________

Travis

The boot and skylight are in the master bathroom with cathedral ceiling as well.
The picture of the ceiling is the master bedroom.

The wood is 7/16 plywood.

Chris Johnson

Good, now you have learned an expensive valuable lesson, when you get to court, hope and prey the judge goes easy on you, perhaps even see it your way.

Update your contract and start doing the job right.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, everyone is just trying to help you learn...like each of us had too.

I know you wanted the job, needed the job, needed the money, etc, etc. That blinded you in not doing your job properly and explaining the proper process to the client to make the job be done right. By them refuting what you told them should have made you do one of two things, easiest would have been to walk away and let us have this discussion with the next guy who would have done what you did, or document and have them sign off on your professional advice prior to commencing the job doing it the way the uneducated HO wanted it done...because that was what they wanted for whatever reason.

For peace of mind, what is the repair actually worth? Can you remove the ceiling, sister 2x10's, add baffles and soffit + ridge vents, redrywall cheaper than removing the entire roof including plywood, spraying Demilac or something to encapsulate the roof allowing you to negate the venting replywood and reshingle?

If either of those is cheaper than the HO demands make a proposal, if both cost more, make a settlement offer.

__________________
Chris

Travis

You can't even walk in her house without stepping on crap. She has sh*@t everywhere(She wants all 38 square(now 2 layer) torn off. She thinks we did the crappiest work ever. Her husband is the one I dealt with(great guy, he would be very reasonable). He passed 6 months after we did the roof. She is the nightmare customer of my life. She can't be reasoned with.

I have resolved every complaint I have been dealt in my 8 years in business. 0 complaints on my BBB. and done over 2000 tear offs in 8 years.

Chris Johnson

I'd settle this thing, you are going to be dealt a blow you don't want...

She finds the right cockroach lawyer and the house is a mess because of the stressed you caused her by your roofing leak, she has lost her will to live and will to keep the house clean. This stress in turn caused trauma in the house and her husband passed because of this or something along those lines to bring in punitive damages (which your GL DOES NOT cover).

Now the roof leak has spread mold spores throughout the house which requires the whole house to be redrywalled along with the carpeting, next thing you know you will be paying for complete reconstruction plus temporary accomodations and extraordinary expenses caused by the upset in her life.

Get a lawyer and make a settlement - fast

Can you tell I live in California?

__________________
Chris

Travis

It is not a roof leak. This is a preexisting condensation problem.
And yes, I know I'm in for it, but am not giving in to her unreasonable demands.

By the way he passed from lung cancer. 3 packs a day for 35 years.

WarnerConstInc.

Did ya go inside the house before you started the job? Looks like a manufactured house to me and lord only knows how they do crap. I will say I have tore into a few that were the same way in parts of the home and never once was there a condesation issue.

MJW

It's not a good job, but that's besides the point. You can only do so much for what they are willing to pay. You really have to watch what you do with a cheap HO.

I would get something written up and signed by another person (engineer type or building official) about the condensation problems. This is a fine line IMO. Was it your responsibility? Some would say yes, some would say no. There are plenty of contractor's out there without the guts to tell the HO what they need. Most just let them decide, and then try to do the job within a budget. Not a good plan, but with the public the way it is nowadays, what is a guy to do?

This could be a major business in the future or even now. There are many many houses with ventilation problems. Problem is, most HO's don't trust a Contractor telling them so. How can we blame them though with all the crooked Contractors out there.........

Just remember in the future..........They don't have to hire you, but if they do, you don't HAVE to do the job.

Travis

[quote=MJW;526102]It's not a good job, but that's besides the point.

It was a butt and run reroof. Only as straight as the 1st layer.
If thats what your talking about.

J-Peffer

At worse I don't see how she could get you for more than repairing the ceiling and adding ridge vent.

It could be difficult as you were dealing with her passed away husband.

Have you contacted the shingle manufacture? Maybe have a rep come look at the work. If you could get somthing written up from them, or someone other than yourself that ridge vent would not help with the ceiling system and no baffles that might help.

I would go with the idea that the shingles are not failing, it's a ventalation issue. There were no forseeable problems with the ceiling for the life of the home with no ventalation so it cannot be forseen that new shingles would cause any worse problems.

kylev

Im thinking there must be a cold spot in the ceiling in order for moisture to condense on the drywall. Or it could be condensing on the framing members and freezing. Then thawing out and serving as a leak. This is where your air space would have been a good idea. The purpose of the air space is basically to protect building materials in and on your roof such as your framing members, roof sheathing and shingles. Without the air space and proper ventilation your allowing moisture from the house to condense on them and damage them. If I were you i would stick to the improper insulation storey, thats what it looks like to me. Good luck though. I don't understand why people try to pinch pennies on a reroof.

GregS

Maybe the spirit of her husband hasn't left yet and it's collecting on the ceiling. Try an exorcism.

K2

I vote that the problem has been there for a long time and may be why she called for a new roof. Unless she consulted you on the problem in the beginning I'd let her waste her breath in front of a judge. ..

That's the nice thing about permits and inspections on reroofs. Another pair of eyes and another set of documents.

And a lawyer for sure and don't listen to any legal advice or concerns found on internet forums. .

Ed the Roofer

Your GL Insurance provider will supply you with an attorney that Must look out for your interests before any others.

Get it turned over to the attorney and be done with it.

Thats what insurance is for, but you Must put in a claim within a resonable period of time after being notified of the problems, so they can not have an issue of backing out due to not being notified and that additional time alowing the problems to multiply.

Ed

__________________
Please Stay Tuned For A Very Important Message From Our Sponsor
http://www.rightwayroofingcompany.com/ www.rightwayroofingcompany.com
Roof Estimates, Roof Repairs, Roofers, Roof Leak Help, Elgin, Carpentersville, East Dundee, West Dundee, Sleepy Hollow, Algonquin, South Elgin, Huntley, Lake In The Hills, Illinois

Renegade

Just a few observations.

That plywood is shot, been going on for way more than three years.

I don't see any ventilation at all

Condensation is the correct assumption there and although it wouldn't be a correct system, continuous ridgevent probably would have prevented the damage.

Looks like a mobile/modular home and I believe it's universal code that you CANNOT recover a mobile home. If so I am assuming you didn't think pulling a permit was all that important either.

Listen to Ed's advice and best of luck