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10-05-2009, 08:11 PM
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#1
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Pro
Trade:
Builder
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Berkshire County
Posts: 131
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Chimney Counter Flashing... Mason or Roofer?
When I replace a roof, I always do a tear off, and replace all the flashing. In my Contract I put a clause saying that chimney flashing is not included in my price. Am I correct to assume that a Mason should be called in if the counter flashing is old and needs replacement? I have replaced base flashings when they are damaged, but I was wondering if other roofers got involved with the counter flashing, and if they do, do you treat this as an extra?
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10-05-2009, 08:17 PM
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#2
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Pro
Trade:
Remodeling
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Northwest Connecticut
Posts: 1,135
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Your better off just including it in the price for the HO as a service so they don't have to find a mason.
Less work for the HO,more $ for you.
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There is no warranty, expressed or implied, as to the accuracy, reliability or completeness of furnished data.Information gathered here may be for the sole purpose of entertainment.
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10-05-2009, 08:23 PM
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#3
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Member
Trade:
framer/roofer
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: connecticut
Posts: 88
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i re-use the counter flashing only if its right, in good condition, and made of lead or copper i hate aluminum.and if it has counter counter with alum step, thats very bad the copper eats away at the alum. i replace all my step flashing only when it has more then one nail hole in it. i hate when hacks nail right up to it. so i usualy replace it 90% of the time. ive never called a mason to do counter flashing. i imagine the mason would get sick of 1 hour visits evey roof you do, so i sujest you learn to do it yourself, and save yourself some money.
What is base flashing?  you mean step flashing?
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10-05-2009, 09:28 PM
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#4
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Commercial Roofing
Trade:
Roofing Contractor
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Lockport, IL
Posts: 1,103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmaurice
i re-use the counter flashing only if its right, in good condition, and made of lead or copper i hate aluminum.and if it has counter counter with alum step, thats very bad the copper eats away at the alum. i replace all my step flashing only when it has more then one nail hole in it. i hate when hacks nail right up to it. so i usualy replace it 90% of the time. ive never called a mason to do counter flashing. i imagine the mason would get sick of 1 hour visits evey roof you do, so i sujest you learn to do it yourself, and save yourself some money.
What is base flashing?  you mean step flashing? 
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did you REALLY say "What is base flashing?" You ARE a roofer??????
__________________
Picking up the slack
www.roseroofing.net
Metal Roof Rehabilitation, Commercial Roofing, Polyurea Roofing Systems, Commercial Spray Foam, Leak Detection and Repair
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10-05-2009, 09:29 PM
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#5
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Commercial Roofing
Trade:
Roofing Contractor
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Lockport, IL
Posts: 1,103
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I do the chimneys and all base flashings and counterflashings myself/in-house. Fabrication is sometimes farmed.
__________________
Picking up the slack
www.roseroofing.net
Metal Roof Rehabilitation, Commercial Roofing, Polyurea Roofing Systems, Commercial Spray Foam, Leak Detection and Repair
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10-05-2009, 09:31 PM
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#6
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JumboJack for president!
Trade:
Hilti walking billboard
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 635
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roofers job for sure.
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10-05-2009, 09:33 PM
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#7
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Pro
Trade:
Siding, Windows, Seamless Gutters, Metal Roofing
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,734
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We replace everything every time
__________________
Originally Posted by Celtic
Like I said...I'm sure you are very good at what you do ~ whatever that is and where ever it happens.
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10-05-2009, 10:43 PM
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#8
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Pro
Trade:
LI,NY designer, new homes, renovation work, concre
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 4,154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronB.
did you REALLY say "What is base flashing?" You ARE a roofer??????
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Different parts of the country, different terminology i would guess. G
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10-06-2009, 06:23 AM
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#9
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Roofer
Trade:
Residential Roofing
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Struthers Ohio 44471
Posts: 426
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I call it step flashing or sub flashing, never base flashing tho.
We do our own counter flashing's.
__________________
God Fearing, Husband/Father, US American, Pool Shooting Roofer
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10-06-2009, 06:25 AM
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#10
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Pro
Trade:
Builder
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Berkshire County
Posts: 131
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Thanks for the feedback, in the future Ill plan on the chimney flashing as well. Makes sense since masons in my area are hard to find. (Plumbers are a little easier to find, Electricians.... Shake a tree and five drop out).
On the job I just did, I ended up building a cricket behind the chimney and redoing the flashing around that part. Took me about 4hrs, including the material run. Choose to eat the cost, since I had not discussed it specifically with the customer (Not comfortable pointing out whats in the contract unless its significant). Also I did a lot of other work for the customer previously. Feel like a hack now, for not replacing all the flashing, next time Ill plan on doing it from the get go.
When I said "Base Flashing" I was referring to the step flashing and the pieces that go above the chimney and below. Everything except the Counter Flashing. I guess "Apron Flashing" might be the proper word. Base Flashing might be something I heard once, or maybe my own lingo. Thanks for everyones feedback.
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10-06-2009, 09:10 AM
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#11
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Pro
Trade:
Roofing
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 106
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Unfortunately for the most part with shinglers here you are dealing with a 'I only wack shingles mentality' so we usually end up installing one of those counterflash gum lip jobbies for counterflashing. Not the best possible solution, but it does work and looks fine if done properly. Finding masons on short order here (or most any qualified tradesman) is difficult at best.
I always wondered about a sticky thread with terminology, so many out of town roofers here I wouldn't mind knowing what the hell they're talking about!
__________________
'I'm living on the edge!'
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10-06-2009, 01:15 PM
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#12
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stop botherin' me!
Trade:
Roofing Siding Gutters Windows
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 7,505
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It's the roofers job to ensure that the roof is water tight. The chimney flashing is a component of a sloped roofing system, thus the roofer's responsibility in my opinion. I replace all flashings as possible, and certainly wouldn't reuse a chimney flashing since I've never come up against one yet that was impossible to repalce. I factor the cost into every job, which is really not a huge factor.
However many hacks in my area will reuse flashings siting that "they still look good and I don't want to waste your money" but what they really mean is "my guys are good shinglers but have no idea when it comes to flashing and I am not charging you enough to afford paying a guy who has a brain and can figure it out." They also neglect to tell the customer that though the flashing looks good now it's likely to leak within 5 years since that flashing is original to the hosue and is likely 20+ years old already.
Why one would replace a roof and not repalce ALL flashings, I'll never know... Oh no wait. Low bidder wins, I forgot.
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10-06-2009, 01:32 PM
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#13
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Pro
Trade:
General construction and remodeling
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Waterloo, IA.
Posts: 1,861
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy
It's the roofers job to ensure that the roof is water tight. The chimney flashing is a component of a sloped roofing system, thus the roofer's responsibility in my opinion. I replace all flashings as possible, and certainly wouldn't reuse a chimney flashing since I've never come up against one yet that was impossible to repalce. I factor the cost into every job, which is really not a huge factor.
However many hacks in my area will reuse flashings siting that "they still look good and I don't want to waste your money" but what they really mean is "my guys are good shinglers but have no idea when it comes to flashing and I am not charging you enough to afford paying a guy who has a brain and can figure it out." They also neglect to tell the customer that though the flashing looks good now it's likely to leak within 5 years since that flashing is original to the hosue and is likely 20+ years old already.
Why one would replace a roof and not repalce ALL flashings, I'll never know... Oh no wait. Low bidder wins, I forgot.
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IMO this is the only post that needs to be here
kind of the same mentality when we try to sell roofs, i absolutely will not sign a job unless i'm allowed into the attic to check venting and if there is issues, be able to address correcting them, so typically we're a minimum of $1K higher than the rest of the "shingle slingers" so we only sell a hand full of roofs every year outright...but i refuse to ever be associated with a roof that looks no better in 5-10yrs than it did prior to me looking at it initally when it had venting issues to begin with. I had to laugh at my neighbor across the street, he just roofed his place 8 years ago...and i told him, none of these houses in our neighborhood (built in the 80's) are vented right, but he knew better and now he's scrambling to reroof so he can list/sell it this fall...and of course, he wont be venting it properly this time either....
guess i'll never understand why people wanna spend money doing a job twice to save a small percentage initally, and i'll never understand why i dont just jump on all this hack mentality since these cats seem to be swamped with work all the time....does it matter if you have people talking bad about ya? nope, cuz you never expect to deal with them again due to the long list of other fools you have to work for.
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10-06-2009, 04:06 PM
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#14
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Pro
Trade:
Roofing
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 106
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I realize it is best to replace all flashings, however in some instances this is not always practical.
Houses with stucco siding are a good example. To replace all of the flashing in such an instance would require either; a) an entire re-stucco job, b) a stucco patch job, or c) counterflashing with a gum lip or alternatively you can cut in a reglet counterflashing, god forbid there is any asbestos to deal with. How do you guys deal with stucco?
__________________
'I'm living on the edge!'
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10-06-2009, 04:35 PM
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#15
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Member
Trade:
Certified Roofing Contractor
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Daytona Fl
Posts: 86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoofer
I realize it is best to replace all flashings, however in some instances this is not always practical.
Houses with stucco siding are a good example. To replace all of the flashing in such an instance would require either; a) an entire re-stucco job, b) a stucco patch job, or c) counterflashing with a gum lip or alternatively you can cut in a reglet counterflashing, god forbid there is any asbestos to deal with. How do you guys deal with stucco?
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I done it all three ways. If the flashing is in good condition I run a half roll of peel-n-stick under it and nail it off then come back over with the dry-in and a thin layer of MB. Then I set the new flashing set in MB both to the deck and the wall, then install the counter with either zinc smacks or Zac fasteners.... use "quad" to fill seal the kick... haven't had any issues.
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10-06-2009, 04:39 PM
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#16
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lee clark
Trade:
Plumbing Electrical carpentry and cabinet work
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Zionsville In
Posts: 7
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In my experience roofers and masons are rarely well equiped to do proper flashings. In this area it falls to a sheet metal worker since the longest lasting flashing material is often Sheet metal of some nature.
I have re-done more mason or roofer flashings than that of sheet metal workers in the 66 years since I joined local 41
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10-06-2009, 04:46 PM
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#17
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BLDG Inspector, G.C
Trade:
BLDG Inspector, G.C
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: N,Calif. Between Sacramento & San Francisco.
Posts: 156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lee clark
In my experience roofers and masons are rarely well equiped to do proper flashings. In this area it falls to a sheet metal worker since the longest lasting flashing material is often Sheet metal of some nature.
I have re-done more mason or roofer flashings than that of sheet metal workers in the 66 years since I joined local 41
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66 YEARS ? Your still worken at 80 + YEARS OLD
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10-06-2009, 04:59 PM
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#18
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lee clark
Trade:
Plumbing Electrical carpentry and cabinet work
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Zionsville In
Posts: 7
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Yep, every day I have a project unfinished
born in 1928 left school for an apprenticeship in 43
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10-06-2009, 05:16 PM
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#19
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BLDG Inspector, G.C
Trade:
BLDG Inspector, G.C
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: N,Calif. Between Sacramento & San Francisco.
Posts: 156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lee clark
born in 1928 left school for an apprenticeship in 43
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Lee you are the MAN.
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10-06-2009, 06:59 PM
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#20
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Pro
Trade:
General construction and remodeling
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Waterloo, IA.
Posts: 1,861
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lee clark
born in 1928 left school for an apprenticeship in 43
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 My grandfather whom i was very fortunate enough to work side by side with since i could walk taught me everything i know and I was blessed to grow up "old school" with ethics/principals vs many of today's so called "contractors/handymen" flooding the markets and ruining reputations world wide. So i commend you for being there, doing that, and still keeping with it  My grandfather finally officially took off the tool belts, sold most of the larger tools and went into requirment, not due to lack of ambitetion, but more so the body giving way, but i'm so thankful i was afforded the opportunity to work beside him for so many years learning not only construction, but also the kind of steel it takes to be a good man!!
(sorry to go off course, i just have alot of respect for the "ole boys")
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