Cheap Insurance Adjuster - For A Caved In Roof/deck

J-Peffer

We replaced a roof for a customer last summer and got a call from him this fall.

He has a gazebo type structure in the rear of his property, on a hill, next to a crick. He has it wired in, with speakers, and electrical and has christian bands come down and put on little shows for kids in the community.

Honestly, one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet. 6th grade teacher, and real easy to keep happy, but does not push back when needed.

He asked if I could rebuild this strucutre, which caved in from a snow load this past winter. His adjuster sent him a estimate, which sadly comes out to $4k to rebuild

The adjuster wants the 6x6 poles, that have 3 bags of concrete on the buried end, that are falling over, re-used. He wants all the decking re-used. His quote on the deck calls for new bond joist, railing, and 4 deck boards to be replaced.

From how I see it, I can't simply "Push" the 6x6 with disturbed soil and 240lbs of concrete attached to the end back in place and "call it good".

Obviously, I want to start from scratch.

I attached some pictures, anyone with restoration, or experience with adjusters, any help or advice is appreciated. I don't want my customer just rolling over, and going along with the adjusters request so I'll take it up with the adjuster.

I have Xactimate, but I'm not super savvey with using it either. But that's what I'll use for my itemized estimate.

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J-Peffer

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neolitic

Maybe that pic is deceptive.
I doubt it though.
I'd guess that from the
adjuster's POV, it started out
a used Yugo, they won't
pay to replace with a Hummer.

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J-Peffer

I think the deck, COULD be salvaged, but I'd like to tie the deck into the supports for the roof, build them into it to provide a floor to the bearing supports, helping with the lateral movement that likely caused the collapse to begin with.

With the rear supports, that you see tilted, I don't want to simply push/pull those back to the deck and rely in fasteners to hold them there.

It might be something I will have to have a local inspector look at, and interpret what he feels would be safe.

The 2 supports, toward the front, appear to be unmoved, and in good shape. those could be used but the rear 4 I'm not so willing to use.

Ed the Roofer

You are on the right track with using the Building Inspector.

Once he says NO, then the adjuster has no choice.

It still doesn't look like a 4 Grand Gazebo to me though.

Ed

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J-Peffer

Thanks for the feedback Ed,

The local inspector is a pretty good guy too, easy to work with and likes to make sure things are built safe so I'll be sure to take it up with him.

The structure is 26' long and 13' wide. So a deck that size the materials alone would cost around 2k.

I'm heading back out to crawl around (I'm scared) to see what could be salvaged out of the deck.

The structure over the deck, WAS a 5:12 pitch roof with 30 year landmarks, 2x8 trusses 24" OC and 1/2" sheeting. He had the demo listed at 12 hours, but with the location of the structure over a cliff, I think it will take longer.

J-Peffer

I met with the local inspector at the job today, and it went well.

I got a hold of the adjuster also, he is letting us replace the 6x6 supports and going with my estimate per Exactimate.

5 of the deck joist had been broken in the fall, and the decking was screwed to the joist. I requested to replace all the 5/4 decking because we'll not be able to get out a lot of the screws as they are counter sunk with heads stripped.

So all in all, it turned out good, and I guess just don't be scared to propose changes to your adjusters!

Ed the Roofer

Good job for your client.

It goes to show that you should not be intimidated by the adjusters "Final" numbers, because they are not necessarily final at all, if you know how and what to ask for.

Ed

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J-Peffer

Absolutely Ed,

I think he was surprised to talk to a contractor that understood the difference between tensile strength and sheer strength of fasteners.

I made sure NOT to leave any messages, I wanted to catch him before he could prepare any answers or replies.

I on the other hand, had every senerio laid out, and an reason for each.

Grumpy

As far as the roof sheathing goes, it has holes in it and obviously can not be re-used. As for the rest I can not comment. I'm not a deck builder so I can't comment on price, since that sorta resembels a deck with a roof, however around here you can get a garage demolished and rebuilt for what he's willing to pay for 4 sticks and a roof.

J-Peffer

Keep doing that work for 4k. I'll keep doing what it takes to get my work appropriated for a higher amount.

kubie

how was the roof attached to the beam? i dont see any hangers, nails, ect you might want to notch those 2x10s in to the posts also we rebuilt a pole shed roof that caved in from the snow and pushed the posts out over 2'. the ins company didnt pay for the posts to be reset. talk about a pain to get them back to plumb.

J-Peffer

The structure defiantly was built with flaws. They simply had hurricane straps to hold the rafters in place, no birds/fish mouth cut.

A architect did the prints for it, and fasteners were the cause of the failure.


The insurance company, still covers the structure, because the home owner built the structure himself, and has it insured.

Birds mouths do need to be cut though, to keep the rear supports from getting that lateral load though, you are correct. Hurricane straps then, to keep from any uplift.

747

Danley garage builders. I have never seen them actually build a garage. But i bet it goes quick. Tear down one day building the next.

MJW

A little harsh don't you think?

Grumpy, the price of these materials are rather steep. I'm sure he will have $2,000 easily in materials, depending on how he builds it.

I'm not sure anyone can build a garage for under $10K. Heck a shed is almost a grand with no garage door or cement.

neolitic

Maybe you should know
a bit more about Grumpy
before you jump to conclusions?
I don't think he is building
those cheap garages, and
I'll bet he could give you
some tips on dealing with adjusters.

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J-Peffer

No offense intended, just don't see the point in doing a job for 4k when I think it cost more to do it right.

Could I do this for 4k? Sure, I could tie off a come along to a tree, nail those supports back to the deck and start putting on the roof, take off a few deck boards and nail down some new, and probably make 2k in a short period of time.

But I'd much rather build a safe, reliable structure, that does not colapse on someone when I'm liable.

It's a 26' span, with 1000lbs over head, built on a fairly steep hill. It failed once, I can't rebuild it the same way or I'm liable if it fails again. The home owner is not laiable, but the insurance company will cover a poorly constructed building, if the home owner builds it, and it's on his policy.

Had a builder constructed this, the insurance company would be going after the builder.

So put up 4 stick and put on a roof? That's not for me, I want to sleep for the next 10 years with out worrying when that roof is going to collapse on a Christan band.

neolitic

"Two people,
divided by a common language."

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MJW

Not really true peffer. Insurance companies insure what is there. A builder isn't liable, especially if the work is specified by the insurance adjuster. If he said re-use the posts, you could and be fine.....IF it passes inspection. Inspectors are the only ones who are not liable for anything. It usually gets passed on to the builders.

We are going through this all now up here with the mold. Inspectors and manufacturers dictate how we build homes. Now with the mold problems, they are passing it onto builders and their insurance.

J-Peffer

That's not how it works in Michigan.

The adjuster is responsible to bring the specified claim to AS good, or better condition.

The builder, still is liable if he erects a unsafe structure, and the structure still has to meet code standards minimum, even if it did not before. There are many things that are just not in "Code" that a builder has to use his own judgment on. A structure like this, would not be inspected nor would a permit be required, so I'd have no recourse to "place blame" on a code, or inspector.

I'd much rather build something, stronger, or over build if possible (and it is in this situation) than rely on the code enforcement officer to take the blame if we end up in court. Not only that, when I do this work, and if it did cave in again, what's that say about me and my company? I'd rather walk away from the job, than do sub par work even if it's requested by an adjuster and inspector.

The insurance company, just does not have to pay to build it that way if it's now how it started.

If it cost more, it's something the home owner has to fund.

You can get into policy jargon and make it really confusing when you start requesting replacement values too.

Honestly, most adjusters I've worked with, have been real understanding and easy to work with. Most understand most things built by home owners, or in the depression era out of scrap lumber, some things have to be changed or improved to replace the damaged area.