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Certainteed Horizon Shingles..

42K views 33 replies 9 participants last post by  dougger222 
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#1 ·
Ah well, "once more into the fray." At 68 years old yet and thanks to Certainteed for the opportunity to raise the the B/P. My roof looks as if it has been strafed by a ME-109. Its was new in 1991 and put on by a reputable contractor who builds houses in the area. Many homeowners in our enclave have Horizon shingles and all are in need of replacement. One owner got a new roof from Cert. but it was a marathon of endless calling and complaining. He also had to sign a non-disclosure. So I await the packet from Cert but I'm not optimistic as to outcome after reading these threads.
Failure to honor warranties is a disgrace and is the albatross of American business. The stench must be awful. One candid person agreed with the statement that, "warranties are merely a marketing device."
 
#2 ·
Certianteed is having quite the problem with their "shangles" (Horizons aren't technically shingles). Rumor has it of a class action law suit.

Warranties ARE meerly a marketing device. No asphalt roof lasts past 20 years. Well technically they "will" last but won't look pretty. This is how the manufacturers know they can give 50 year warranties. The average asphalt roof lasts 15 years, and the average asphalt/fiberglass roof lasts 17.
 
#9 ·
Certianteed is having quite the problem with their "shangles" (Horizons aren't technically shingles). Rumor has it of a class action law suit.

Warranties ARE meerly a marketing device. No asphalt roof lasts past 20 years. Well technically they "will" last but won't look pretty. This is how the manufacturers know they can give 50 year warranties. The average asphalt roof lasts 15 years, and the average asphalt/fiberglass roof lasts 17.
I HAVE READ MANY OF THE COMPLAINTS RE CERTIANTEED HORIZON
SHINGLES. SOME OF THE COMENTS REFERED TO CLASS ACTION SUITS. HAS THERE BEEN ANYMORE ACTIVITY IN THAT DIRECTION? I AM AN IOWAN WITH A HORIZON PROBLEM. I'M AWAITING THE CONTRACTOR TO REMOVE SOME SHINGLES TO SEND TO CERTAINTEED. WOULD APPRECIATE HEARING FROM YOU.
 
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#3 ·
windchill said:
Ah well, "once more into the fray." At 68 years old yet and thanks to Certainteed for the opportunity to raise the the B/P. My roof looks as if it has been strafed by a ME-109. Its was new in 1991 and put on by a reputable contractor who builds houses in the area. Many homeowners in our enclave have Horizon shingles and all are in need of replacement. One owner got a new roof from Cert. but it was a marathon of endless calling and complaining. He also had to sign a non-disclosure. So I await the packet from Cert but I'm not optimistic as to outcome after reading these threads.
Failure to honor warranties is a disgrace and is the albatross of American business. The stench must be awful. One candid person agreed with the statement that, "warranties are merely a marketing device."

The French have no concept of loyalty or support. Can you expect more from a French-owned company?
 
#5 ·
What area are you in? I've done several defective Horizon shangle roofs and have three contracts waiting signatures at the moment. You will have to contact a lumber yard that stocks Certainteed products and get a form to fill out for Certainteed. At a minumal Certainteed will buy the new shingle more than likely Landmark 30's and pay some for age. Your roof is half it's age they should split the bill with you.

Grumpy, I've been on asphalt roofs that were over 20 years old and had to tell the homeowner they can wait a couple more years for replacement. Just did a townhome built in 84 with the metric shingles and only the very sunny sides were starting to show age. I could see an Owen Corning ashpalt shingle last 15 years but not the Sealdon 25's.
 
#6 ·
Douger based on reports I have read and my personal experience, roofs in the Chicago metro area don't usually last 20 years. This is an average...

My father put 20 year shingles on a front porch of our house that he built. Oh he nursed those shingles well past 20 years. He used the silver coatings on shingles. After 15 years he coated the roof every 3 years. It looked god-awful.
 
#7 ·
Grumpy, I would say Chicago and Minneapolis/St. Paul have somewhat similar seasons with your area having perhaps slightly warmer summers and my area cooler winters. There have been some shingles over the years though that can last a good while.

You must remember that many shingle manufactures 20 years ago made shingles with a 15 year warranty and not the 20-25 year warranty you see every shingle manufacturer with now.

My father said he's installed many roofs with a 15 year warranty over the years, will they last 20 years? Doubt it!
 
#8 ·
I really think that the fact of the matter is manufacturer warranties are a marketing trick.

Heck I know our warranty is a marketing trick, to a point. We WILL honor our warranty for the stated period of time. We also give a long term warranty. When I say long term I mean we double the local average on repalcements. 10 years labor on a roof replacement. We do this because we know if we do the work right, it should last ten years. I've been on many roofs that were brand new where the home owners forgot who did the roof so didn't know who to contact for the warranty. I've answered the phone for an ESTIMATE we did years ago but never landed the sale and they thought we were the roofers because they managed to dig up our estimate and they needed a repair. Houses are sold and paperwork lost. There are many variables that cause warranties to be forgotten.
 
#10 ·
I have also done a few. The shingles are just plain garbage. On the certainteed website, you can print the pages for the claim and send the shingles in. They do pay.

I have seen shingles last many years, but I have to agree they don't look as nice after even 7 years, let alone 20. Some winters and/or summers can be bad enough to take 5 years off the shingles.

Most of the horizon roofs around I have seen have been replaced from the hail storms. Sadly, some are being replaced by Timberlines.
 
#11 ·
Kinda funny how people bash GAF - And prefer Certainteed products. I used Certainteed for about 3 years their claims process is terrible takes them a year or better sometimes to settle a claim. They have fought and are still fighting numerous class action lawsuits wheras Gaf has had only one to my knowladge and fessed up right away and paid the piper.

I do think Certainteed has some good products but think they need to stand behind their warranties a little better after all it is their product.
 
#14 ·
Kinda funny how people bash GAF - And prefer Certainteed products.
It's easy, they are a better shingle. Landmarks are better than Timberlines. Hard to argue that. As for 3 tabs, GAF has had the worst line until the certainteed XT's. They are almost as bad.


Give it time. They will have their hands full with claims on the timberlines. We have done some already.

Cetainteed makes their share of bad shingles. I'll agree to that. On the other hand, I haven't seen a GAF shingle that is really worth the money.
 
#15 ·
i do not see how you can say landmarks are better - maybee same quality - if you compared the 2 - 30 year products you would find gaf shingles are actually thicker and have more of a fiberglass to asphalt mixture than landmarks.

As far as 3 - tabs go the 25 year sealdon was the worst other than a globe 3 - tab. both these would be lucky to go 15 years. I have been using 3-tab sovereigns for 18 years. Except for a few batches in the 90's all are still performing well. i think i have had 2 or 3 callback warranty claims with GAF. have easily been on a dozen or more certainteed defects and i use GAF 90% of the time.

If you strictly use landmarks that is good it is a good shingle but if you did have a problem good luck working it out with certainteed there warranty protection sucks. they put you off for years. i sent in a claim for a homeowner on the horizon shingles over a year ago took them six months to come back and offer $350.00 now they are up to $650.00 i think if i push for another year or so i may get $750.00 on a 9 year old roof.
 
#16 ·
More fiberglass doesn't mean bull. I have compared the shingles as I use both. The Landmarks are still thicker. Just setting the shingle, you can notice that.
As for 3 tab GAF's they do not stay on unless there is no wind whatsoever. Lightest shingle made, and they don't last 20 years.

Have had claims with both shingle manufacturers. Both were slow, but Certainteed paid the full bill a few times. GAF hasn't yet. I think the warranties on any of them is not good past 5 years. All of them are getting cheaper made as time goes on. Used Elk today and they seem real strong, but a little dry. I'm not quite sure of them yet. Haven't recommended Timberlines to anyone though. The ones we do, pick them because of the color combinations they have.

Maybe that's their problem is too much fiberglass, same as the horizons. They are actually comparable with the timberline just being a two part shingle and the horizon being one.
 
#18 ·
Yes, those are horizons. You can't discount a whole company for one line of shingles. Anyhow, good post.

As for GAF, we did a job last fall where the timberlines were 4 years old and cracked from top to bottom. It was a 5-plex with 5 different owners. This claim took 10 months and each owner had to front $1000 of their own money to get it redone. We had to use Timberlines again, and I'm curious to see what the shingles look like in the future, For their sake, I hope it's better. I have seen this more than once.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Finding out both the Horizon and "New" Horizions shangles both have quality issues. It's been known for a while that the NH's have had issues blowing off but now seeing other defects on the shingles within 10 years of install.

Tore off some junky Timberline 25's lately.

Would it be safe to say most Timberlines had a 25 year warranty up until 2-3 years ago? Recall most laminate manufacturers jumping there 25 year warranties to 30 years. Wonder how many actually made the product to last longer?

Agree, an advertisement ploy.

Certainteed although French owned isn't that bad of a company. I know several people that live in and around the Shakopee plant who have worked there many years.

Buying local to me is worth paying more for a better product. I buy my shingles from a small single owned lumber yard. All the felt is Roofers Sellect and the ice and water is Winterguard. 95% of the shingles ordred are Landmarks, the other 5% would be Landmark Plus, Premiums, and TL's.

Certainteeds Master Installer program is one of the best in the business. Certainteed has spent millions of dollars making products better of the years.

A year ago the Shakopee plant added a second plastic strip on the back side the Landmarks to prevent sticking, cost was a million dollars.
 
#20 ·
a million dollars??? for a strip of plastic? is that here-say?

I know when Certainteed made the 25 to 30 year warranty switch, the shingles didn't change. We sold many certainteed 30 year roofs using Landmark 25's that were warrantied to 30 years. Now they are just simply called Landmark.

The old horizons were a tad thicker, but they were a 3 tab shangle.
 
#21 ·
I have yet to see a timberline roof fail under warranty - been talking to my suppliers -- United Supply corp -- ABC -- Roof Depot --- And Western Roofing. They have seen every manufacturers shingle fail the most common one though is certainteeds. Horizon line and Globe 20 year organic top two. GAF sovereign in the mid to late 90,s as well as seldon both had mixture problems not to mention O.C. too.

The most recent problem was the Certainteed Landmarks this spring Certainteed bought back from every supplier cause shingles were sticking together. They claimed that such a high demand was made they were stacking them to quickly before they had a chance to cool down. My opinion is that they started to follow GAF and put them in plastic then tried to change the sealing strip and made a mistake by not putting a film down.

Maybee you should talk to a non bias supplier who sells all brands ask who has the most problems.

I have yet to have a Landmark job fail under warranty either - I was however plenty peed when 3 different suppliers sent out shingles stuck together on one job that should have been a day job turned into a week.

And just to be fair had a problem with the ridge cap falling apart from GAF last month. Had to hand seal the profile tab on every piece for 3 jobs.

Oh GAF - O.C. - Certainteed all have local plants here in MN. As i understand they all get their materials from the same asphalt companies locally.

I guess my main problem with Certainteed and O.C. is they do not cater to me enough. And i mean manufacturer reps not supplier reps. Certainteed as i here has one for the 5 state area. O.C. has One for the state of MN. GAF has 2 In the State of MN.

I could Probably get my GAF Rep to come to every sales call i make to promote GAF. And i cannot even compete production wise with the big boys on the block.
 
#22 ·
Oh i forgot to mention the Laminated shingle cracking problem is the O.C. Oakridge Pros - Not the Timberlines are you guys sure they were Timberlines? The pretty colors you have been mentioning got me thinking the Timberlines have the least amount of color choices looking at my samples Landmark has a color to match all Timberlines then some. O.C. has them both beat. in colors as well as in variations.
 
#23 ·
I completely understand your view. Especially since you have a sales view. It has always been easier to sell timberline because everyone knows the name "timberline".
GAF also has a few more colors. The ridge always fall apart. They are a bear to work with. The tar is on one side and it doesn't bend right, but they are nice and big and worth the money you pay for them. OC has the best ridge IMO.
The shingles sticking together was a problem for a few weeks, and I told them they would have that problem at the meeting when they switched. They do have a tighter bag than GAF which makes them not stick together in hot weather.

And yes, they are timberlines that crack. GAF is specifically known for it for a long time. Our big supplier is United Products and they carry every brand. The metro stations do go through alot of timberlines. Most companies there are not owner operators. Further out you get more owner operated companies and most shingles are Landmark and Elk.

I almost had to switch to GAF awhile ago because of a few things I don't like about Landmark. Tried a few jobs with Timberline and went back. It's just a better shingle. You can notice this when laying them.

Like I said, from a sales point of view, it can be different.
 
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#24 ·
CertainTeed Sealdon

Is there a class action on the CertainTeed Sealdon shingles? We are in the process of buying a home and the whole neighborhood in Woodbury MN was built with CertainTeed's Sealdon shingle. We have tons of curling now and it is 9 yrs old on the proposed house. Lots in the neighborhood do too. Is praying my only outlet than sitting on the phone for hours?:sad:
 
#26 ·
Warranty issue, possibly.

Covered?

Maybe?

Ventilation usually is not done correctly and that is the escape clause for most shingle manufacturers warranties, because they know it in advance and do not do much if anything to enforce it before handing out worthless paper warranty paperwork.

Ed
 
#27 ·
The only class action law suit against Certainteed is for the Horizon shangles but the Sealdons fail by 15 years on the South and West sides. The North sides can stay looking good for up to 25 years. The sun and the rain make the Sealdons curl.

Last jobs I did with the Sealdons Certainteed prorated the shingles only and gave an extra $3 per square with the purchase of Landmarks. On most homes it comes out to $400-800 with a total bill of $4-8K. Only during the 5 year sure start warranty does Certainteed pay towards labor costs.

Last jobs I did with the Horizons Certainteed was still paying for Landmarks but wouldn't pay towards any labor or any other roofing materials although they make everything else needed but the valley metal and other flashing.

Been seeing cracking and lots of blow offs with the New Horizons recently. Some of these roofs were done up to 10 years ago and some are showing age already. The bid Minnesota wind storm a few Sundays back caused a lot of wind damage. Got calls on roofs from Northfield to Woodbury.
 
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