Are All Builders This Dumb?

mattp

Got a call to do a 35sq roof on a new construction. The contractor says all materials are there. When I get there I notice the roof has about 150' of valley and 50' of side wall, so I ask where the ice barrier and step flashing is. He doesn't know what ice barrier is and say i don't need to flash because his wall sheathing and 2" log siding will cover it. I responded I'll get the ice barrier and he needs to sheath the wall first so I can get step flashing on before the house wrap is installed. He said that would work for him because he's not a roofer and doesn't know how to do it. He also told me he did seven reroofs last year so maybe I'll get the call backs on them too.

Cole

Paper Contractor!

At least he called the right person.

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mattp

The scarriest part is he is the one doing the framing. I'm not a framer but I believe I could do better.

roofwiz74

maybe you should start framing.I heard there is lots of money in it.

what do you charge a sq new construction walker?

some parts of the country don't use ice and water.when I lived in OK it was hard to find unless I bought wholesale and ordered.where are you from?

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joasis

I guess I am pretty dumb, I have never seen ice and water shield......of course, I live in Oklahoma.

I think assuming all builders are that dumb may get you a few surprises...some of us are not paper contractors.

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Grumpy

I am very weary when a customer of any kind, builder or consumer, says they will provide materials. I ask them that they provide a material list of what is to be provided. The list is never complete or is always short.

A customer the other day called us out to bid their roof, they had a small flat roof abotu 2 squares attached in the rear. The customer said they need a price for labor only because they boughtt he EPDM from home depot. (Out of curiousity I found out they paid about $300 for $75 worth of material BTW) When I pressed if they had the glues and fasteners all I got was a blank stare. So All I did was figure a normal price and backed out $75 for what they did have. BIG SAVINGS!

I bid a job for an architect. He saw me working on one of his neighbor's houses. About a year later after I bid it he called me and wanted the work done BUT wanted a price labor only AND wanted me to provide a material list. I told him After I get a down payment I will give him a material list and when he finds out what the price is for materials, assuming he pays less than I do I will back out what he spends. He was very frustrated with me seeing as I was not going to give him a break on MY PROFIT, which is what he wanted.

I've got to make the same $$$ at the end of the day regardless who is buying the materials. You want to provide materials? Fine, my labor markup just doubled. I used to only markup my labor anyways years past until my book keepr got involved with helping me do my price lists and he said it would be easier and or more accurate to mark up everything. I see his point, but he didn't account for morons and scum bags.

BTW I have no problem working for paper contractors, but they play by MY rules just like everyone else has to. Want ME to do it? You have to do it MY way. If they can agree to that and are willing to pay the premium for me to manage the job then let's work together.

Grumpy

One other neat trick, when ever someone wants a material list from me, I always add a few of everything just incase I am short. Alot of thigns can happen there, I might get the keep the surplus. I might be short and need the extra in which case I am not out of pocket. Or after the customer prices the materials they are shocked and decide to let me buy it.

masonking02

i thought a bug was on my screen . lol

dougchips

I had to put my thumb over it so I could read this thread without going crazy.

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Cole

I know, I went to read a thread I posted in earlier and it drove me insane!!

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dougger222

Been putting five in a half feet of ice and water on all my new roofs since 2000. In 1999 my builders thought I was crazy with my prices but since keeping them the same since then they've seen the ups and downs of new constructions prices and have always paid for quality.

theroofinggod

I have to agree w/ grumpy on this

dougger222

I've noticed most home owners who are subbing themselves always cut short on materials. Most commonly I see either tiny shingle tins (step flashing) or none at all. Another problem area is valley flashing, either they don't have any or it's pre-formed. Most don't know to order starter shingles which is a must when laying laminates. Plastic air vents always bother me as well. Dormer flashing is another thing I'm always short on when working for an amature.

Every time I've had to supply materials on a new roof I've been paid in full no questions asked. The best is when they say there's step flashing there (the little flat stuff) and I say it's junk. A couple times I've had the owners come out so I can compare size and quality. Every one has said, "Wow, your right, better use what you got then".

theroofinggod

If it is large enough to cover proper headlap,and sidelap,how does making it larger yet help you???

dougger222

I'm not a big fan of having to bend every step flashing. Once bent they are about 50% smaller than the pre-bent step flashing that I've been using for over 10 years. Even the pre-bent small step flashing is still 40% smaller than what I like to use.

When using the little tins you have to be really careful nailing so that you don't nail your fingers while pressing the tin into the wall to form a tight fit.

It would be like installing 8in wide ridge rather than the normal 12in wide ridge. Sure the small ridge would work but wouldn't you rather have the larger ridge on your house? Same is true IMO on the flashing.

theroofinggod

I don`t see a big difference but ,I guess it`s a valid point w/nailing it(easier)

troubleseeker

Unfortunately Cole has it right..paper contractor, and there are way too many of them around, could not build a dog house that will last more than three years, which is fine with them, because they will have been long paid when it rots.. Some future HO will owe you for saving his purchase from rotting and requiring expensive repairs within the first few years. I would never order a roofing package, unless it was from a material list given to me by the roofer, which I am not. Since he is the guy that is going to get the phone call if there is a leak, I don't expect him to do the job with any improper materials that I order out of stupidity.

theroofinggod

see,they always blame us ,one way or another,so make sure when you do it it`s the right way!

Grumpy

Amen to that. It's your warranty afterall.