4 Case Studies Of 4 Separate Hail Caims With Different Insuarance Companies

Ed the Roofer

A contracting company has a contract with the home owner, not with the insurance company.

Now, to be more professional and assist the home owner in getting their full amount payable that they have been paying premiums for with their Home Owners Insurance Contract, I will go above and beyond the call of duty expected of me by any home owner.

I must be running into more insurance work recently because I have been focusing on it a lot more, since all those Storm Troopers, errrr, I mean Storm Chasers came into town.

4 Current Case Studies:

4 customers with 4 different insurance company's:

By the way, none of these clients initially called in requesting estimates for insurable damages. They were totally unaware that their insurance company's would cover shingle and siding damage, since they were not in the center of the Storm Chaser location where everyone is getting all new work done.

All 4 houses are in near proximity to each other, only separated by about 1 mile from the farthest 2 homes. 2 homes are right next door to each other, but with different insurance company's.

By the way, the Storm Chasers have not invaded these neighborhoods yet, so there is NO NEIGHBOR-ITIS that has infected the attitude of the claimants yet.

Hartford:
1 with Hartford and the customers did everything I told them to do when making their claim call. They scheduled and required that the adjuster contact me first to meet him at the home. The adjuster went their without calling me, yet still was agreeable to the claim. The only difference is, that since I had a signed contract with the home owner for Roofing for the house, roofing for the garage, gutters for the house and siding for the house.
This adjuster says that they do have records that a recent hail storm causing damage has occurred.
Totals = 1,970 sq ft of 1 layer T.O on walk on pitch, roof and replace basic 3-tabs. 82 feet of gutter and 1 of 1 story DS and 1 of 2 story DS and 1,581 sq ft of siding only, with no deductions made for window and door openings.

His figures for that 1 layer tear-off and related work maxed out at around $ 12,432.61
After reviewing his paperwork and catching 5 very simple roof measurements that were off and a shortage on the siding and that there were gutter guard screening in the gutters, the amount is now at $ 17,483.00 which just so happens to be my signed contract price.

Why didn't the adjuster have that required additional $ 5,000.00 in the adjustment originally?



Farmers:
1 with Farmers and the roof was so severely deteriorated from improper ventilation, I told the home owner not to even try to claim that and only claim the siding which had been visibly affected.
Check written on the spot for the siding because the adjuster confirmed his appointment with me and we went over the job.
1,637 sq ft of siding R & R = $ 9,342.14



State Farm:
1 with State Farm and adjuster met with me on his 2nd attempt due to rain, on a Sunday afternoon.
1 layer Tear-Off on a Walk On pitch with no accessories at all.
2,483 sq ft of roofing with basic 3-tabs = $ 7,309.00
I had a signed contract with the home owner for $ 7,674.00 and the check written out on the spot after the deductible was for $ 7,309.00
His value for all line items were listed as "Per Bid Item"



AllState:
1 with AllState. This is the next door neighbor to the "Farmers" client. This home owner saw that I had pointed out the hail damage to his neighbors siding and that the adjuster came out and agreed and paid for it.
So, Mr. Sharpie HO figures why does he have to have a signed contract with me first and have me meet with his adjuster.
1st AllState adjuster says that their is definite hail damage, but that he has no reports of recent hail, so,
Denied.
Mr. Sharpie HO asks his neighbor what he should do and the neighbor remembered what I had told him about requesting a 2nd adjuster to come out and review the damage.
2nd adjuster comes out and says their is definite hail damage but that he has no report of hail in the area recently, so,
Denied.

By the way, the photos submitted by the AllState Adjusters, or at least the ones I saw at the Home Owners house tonight, conveniently did not have any pictures on any of the 4 sides that revealed the dents and the dings on the aluminum siding. I went around and saw significant hail damage on 3 of the 4 sides.




Wait A Minute!!!
3 other Insurance Company's that did their adjusting work had recent and large enough hail damage on file to know that the hail damage most certainly was from a recent event.

Why does Hartford, State Farm and Farmers all have records indicating that a recent hail damage storm was substantial enough to accept their proper liability for making their customers whole again and paying for the proper remediation work, but AllState in their All-Knowing methods deems otherwise, with not only one adjuster, but 2 separate adjusters for the next door neighbor who had Farmers Insurance?




Could 3 individual Cat-Adjusters from Hartford, State Farm and Farmers and their weather reports be wrong?



From AllStates perspective, all 3 of these other company's Must be wrong, because they have no records of any recent hail, therefor the right way to take care of their customers is to deny them coverage.



Although I started off, trying to keep my sarcasm to the tactics of one company out of the written post here, the ludicrousness of how they get away with treating their customers in such a fashion goes beyond disbelief.

There very well are adjusters that work for that company who have integrity and a sense of fair dealings and being truthful with their contracted clients, but it seems as if they must be few and far between. I admire the guy who can take a stand for ethics and integrity, instead of spewing the company line. At what point would the obvious facts be enough to draw attention to oneself. Would an adjuster who was trying to be more truthful and faithful to the clients soon have their position diminished or terminated? I would hate to be in those shoes, knowing that I Had to Cheat and Lie on the company's behalf, because it seems to be their policy around here.

The only thing that is preserving their image of integrity, is that most Home Owners and Most Local Contractors do not know that they are being taken advantage of. Ignorance is bliss, So You Remain Thinking You Are In Good Hands As Long As You Are Ignorant Of Your Contractual Rights That They Will Not Enforce For You.

Ed

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dougger222

Welcome to the wonderful world of Allstate!!! Are you in good hands??? Answer, yes and it's not with Allstate...

There must have been a lot of hail for Allstate to say it had hail damage. In MN they need 15 hits per test square, that's a lot of hail.

My new policy is to never draw a roof diagram for Allstate and if it's USAA I tell them they have no damage. The reason why is Allstate is Allstate and USAA hires contractors to go out and access the damages and they write the claims. So far everyone of my good leads with USAA has turned into a big waste of time. Who USAA forced on home owners 5 years ago are no longer in business.

My two recent claims worked like this and I didn't meet with either adjuster.

Farmers, $9,500 for the roof and some fascia, got them to pay $15,500.
State Farm, roof only $12,400, got them to pay $17,200 but sent them a bid for $19,500. They claimed they couldn't pay on the price list that my estimate was written in.

Here's some food for thaught. So far this has happened to me twice. Adjuster comes to roof says no, another adjuster comes to roof and again says no. Haage comes to roof and says the same thing as the first two adjusters. Third adjuster goes onto roof and buys it.

Today an adjuster told me State Farm is number one, Nationwide number two, Allstate number three, and American Family number four. My take is the best of the four happens to fall at number four, the worse is number three.

dougger222

Last week had a home owner call me after roofing their new house last Winter ask me which insurance companies I recommended.

Sadly enough the one they had who were raising the rates a lot were much better than the ones they were considering through the insurance broker.


Today had an agent who was supposed to meet with the adjuster and I on a roof. He was a no show but the adjuster recalled him on a roof a few weeks ago. 10 year old black organic roof denied for hail and wind damage. The nicely dressed agent crawled down the ladder turned to the home owner and said, "Your roof is just plain ***X"!!! The adjuster was speachless.

Ed the Roofer

You must have misread the point.

All 3 other companies on homes nearby verified the hail damage and had weater reports to agree that it was a recent hail storm with large enough hail and frequency to pay for the claims.

AllSnake was the only insurance company out of the 4 who stated that they had no records of recent hail damage.

Denied.



But.....I got the contract anyways, at my contract price because I did such a nice job on the neighbors home and he has been speaking very highly of our crew and work and clean up and details that he noticed we did. The neighbor I already did a job for used to do roofing and guttering in the past, so he knew most of what to look for, as far as quality, but was still not up to par, as far as the ventilation aspect went, so I educated him.



Now, if the Home Owner had taken my advice originally and had me meet with the adjuster, his odds would have improved, but it is still a crap-shoot with AllSnake.

Ed

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dougger222

Ed, it's just a way Allstate is trying to not pay for a roof, saying the hail is past it's allowable time to file a claim when in fact it's within the allowable time frame. Perhaps you need to get weather reports to bring to future Allstate claims? It should be an easy fight to get the roofs approved though. Have the home owners complain to the agent. Once approved though the problems will start. "We can get it done for what we are offering to pay".

Talked to an adjuster once that said he had no problem running a hail claim through that was 6 years old.

In 06 got a roof approved from a 98 hail storm and then got two more approved last year from the 98 hail storm. All the insurance company did was tie the claims to a new hail date wich were marble sized hail at best when the 98 hail was golf ball sized.

Gotten a ton of very old wind damaged paid by insurance companies for full replacement.

Today's tear off was from the 8/24/06 hail storm. On 8/23/08 the home owner and I signed the contract and sent it to State Farm and they paid it in full. The last roof to be done in the area.

Ed the Roofer

I interpret the "Rule" to mean, either One Year or Two Years after the "Discovery" of the damage. Not from the date of the incident.

What "Reasonable Man", and that is a legal phrase both goes onto his roof to look for hail damage and even if a "Reaonable Man" did so, would he know what to look for?

Ed

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MJW

Ed, the rule is two years from the date of the storm. The homeowner has 2 years to get the work completed. We have done jobs that were within days of the 2 year expiration.

Ed the Roofer

Joe, could you show me anywhere in a policy that states, In Writing, that a claim has to be reported and completed within 2 years of the weather related incident?

Or, even any language the makes specific time frame requirements as part of the Insurance Contract.

Resonable period of time.....

As soon as the problem is discovered.....

Phrases like these will be what is typical.

Ed

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MJW

I will try to find one. I usually give the paperwork back to the homeowners, so I'm not sure if I'll have one. It is usually stated on the first page of the homeowners paperwork from their adjuster.

MJW

I believe that homeowners have 6months to one year to complete the work after they have received their paperwork from the adjusters. They try to push the homeowners into getting them done ASAP, so they can close the case and 'get it off their desk'. They can, however (legally) get an extension for up to two years to get the repairs completed.

dougger222

Not all insurance companies give you two years to do the work.

Country Insurance gives you one year from the date of loss to have the work done or you get nothing. You may be able to file an extension though.

American Family is another one that gives you one year from date of loss. Was able to file an extension twice this year without a problem.

State Farm will pay the full claim on a signed contract which is nice and they give you two years.

This could of course vary from state to state.

mdshunk

Ed, got any decent pics that exemplify what hail damage to shingles looks like? Just missing dots of gravel?

Ed the Roofer

MD,

Dougger could post his photo link to Extreme Hail, but that significant damage is obvious to anyone.

Regular hail damage almost looks insignificant upon first impact.

Many other irregularities often get misidentified as Hail Damage, when in reality it may be scuffing from foot traffic, even as old as from the original installation.

It could be algae growth that leaches onto the granule surfacing and causes a loss of embeddment of the granules into the asphalt surfacing, which then comes loose and appears to be Hail Damage.

I am at my Folks in Wisconsin for the weekend, but when I get back, I will post photos of what the insurance compony has paid for and what they have denied.

What you will wind up seeing, is that most of the other insurance companies pay for even minimal or questionable damages, since it in fact is damage, but AllSnake will have Denials for Hail Damage Claims of even more substantive nature, even what is extremely obvious to be an insurable claim, but stand there with their arms crossed and reitterate, "Well, I Guess We Agree To Disagree.".

Ed

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J-Peffer

Great information Ed,

I do very little insurance work, 2-3 jobs a year and most of the time the customer has made the claim already and called me after talking to the adjuster.

Your choice to make yourself familar with the policys and bringing to attention to your customer what can be claimed is with out a doubt appricated by them.

dougger222

Every adjusters depiction of hail will vary. I've had adjusters pay for hail on one roof and then on the next one there's the same amount of damage and they say no.

One will circle hits that just took the granuals off the shingles. Next job same insurance company diferent adjuster same area and they say since the hail didn't damage the shingle matting it's not enough to warrant a roof replacement.

Seen adjusters pay for hail on roofs that had no hail. Seen adjusters not pay for roofs with hail with lots of hail damage.

Here is the link to the pics Ed mentioned,
http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/...arden&start=48

Did two roofs with hail like the pics depict and sadly enough didn't do the actual roof most of the pics were taken on. Did do one right down the street with 8 month old dark brown laminates which had a ton of damage on. The other one was with the same shingles but a 60sq 8/12 10/12 with the same damage less than a mile from the were the pics were taken. It was a huge band of hail. Alot of the areas were hit again 6 days later with big hail.

Going back to the area to look at a roof on Tuesday, will make sure to take some pics and post them to see what some rain has done to the hits.