Zip System Sheathing, Anybody Using It?

**loneframer** · 09-02-2009, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC sawdaddy

So did you put felt over this stuff for a shingle application with a 3:12? Or do you trust it that much

I'm not shingling this, but the GCs guys are doing 2 layers of #30 felt as recommended by the shingle manufacturer for low pitch apps., as well as going with a 20% reduction of exposure.

Timuhler · 09-14-2009, 08:21 PM

Posted this over at JLC too.

I priced out the Zip Wall today.

4x8 $13.44 4x8 reg OSB $6.05
4x9 $16.36 4x9 reg OSB $8.24
4x10 $18.70 4x10 reg OSB $?? I didn't ask

Plus Tape

Now, I'm very intrigued by this product. I'm personally not worried about the tape. Reason is that we've had Vycor on the forklift mast for 7 years in the direct weather and it will not come off, even if I work on getting it off. I believe that the tape will bond to the facing on the sheathing and if you pull it off, then part of the panel itself will come with it.

In addition to that, there is going to be siding nailed up to it and through it (self-healing is nice too) so its not going to go anywhere. We run our sheathing vertically here (because is smart :-)), so our vertical seams will start under the eaves and head south. The horizontal are the ones that concern me, but you know? I'll tape those as we side. With tape like this a reverse lap ever 16" isn't a big deal, Vycor used to say that once that tape is stuck to another peice, the lap isn't relevant. I don't know if the website still says that, I'll check.

I have talked to guys who have used this product and it will go on even when the sheathing is slightly damp.

We are going to start a little 1800 sq ft house on a lot with a view that we have and keep the project under 300k (since that is still moving somewhat here) and so cost is a major issue. I'll be doing the framing and siding with my brother and the roofing (we already formed and "placed" the foundation).

This will be a test subject for us. I'm working on getting a good discount to get the materials and tape for the same price as housewrap and OSB (pronounced on my jobsites as ahhhzzzbbb). So we'll see. I'm going to try and take pictures, and keep a detailed account of this.

One thing I for us is that not installing and repair housewrap will help in siding costs, not marking out studs, etc. I can run housewrap myself pretty quickly, but I can also install siding quickly. I really think that this can speed up siding.

My plan is to sheathe the walls when they are on the deck as we always do, and tape the seams. This county we are building in doesn't have a shear inspection, so we can do this. I plan on building the rakewalls w/overhangs as well as building the rafter walls w/ closed soffits already installed. I did this a few months ago and it worked out great. I'm also planning on 16" overhangs.

Except at a few corners, all the zip will be installed and taped before the walls lifted. I think we can tape the seams in about the same time as we install and cut out housewrap when we install this first.

But we'll see. . . .

Paulie · 09-14-2009, 08:29 PM

Thanks for the price check. I sent for the information packet and got it a few days ago. I looked it over and still didn't see any prices.

www.phbconstruction.com

knucklehead · 09-14-2009, 08:49 PM

So , what I want to know is do you have to space it like regular OSB?

Timuhler · 09-14-2009, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knucklehead

So , what I want to know is do you have to space it like regular OSB?

Good question. I'll try and find out on their website. I have heard from guys using it that it swells less than regular OSB. That should be expected though, I would think, especially if the seams are taped.

Timuhler · 09-14-2009, 09:03 PM

Found it http://www.zipsystem.com/installatio...sheathing.aspx

If I'm watching that correcty, you can butt them tight if installing vertically because they are self gapping, but if you butt them 4' edge to 4' edge like sheathing a roof, then you have to gap it.

wallmaxx · 09-14-2009, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timuhler

Found it http://www.zipsystem.com/installatio...sheathing.aspx

If I'm watching that correcty, you can butt them tight if installing vertically because they are self gapping, but if you butt them 4' edge to 4' edge like sheathing a roof, then you have to gap it.

10-4

The long edge has a tongue on it that self gaps.

N.Schiffer · 09-15-2009, 10:34 AM

I'm seeing this stuff sprout very fast in my area, and I myself am very eager to try it.

jkfox624 · 09-15-2009, 07:25 PM

How much does the tape add to your price Tim? Housewrap prices out like $3 per 4x8 sheet + labor around here. I would imagine vertically taping seems on the floor the time spent would be negligable but then there have been times we've wrapped walls on the deck then taped seems when its up so labor is a wash.

Timuhler · 09-15-2009, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkfox624

How much does the tape add to your price Tim? Housewrap prices out like $3 per 4x8 sheet + labor around here. I would imagine vertically taping seems on the floor the time spent would be negligable but then there have been times we've wrapped walls on the deck then taped seems when its up so labor is a wash.

I just got the prices emailed to me

1 case of 12 rolls of 3.75" x 90' tape= $411 or about $34/roll, so that is $2.64/foot

1 case 6 rolls 6"x90' = 212 or $35.33/roll or $2.54/foot

Tape gun is $98

Normally I think we pay about $25/roll 9'x75' of window flashing, so that is $3/ft. That isn't bad, I think the 6" roll is normally about $19. So the 6" Huber tape is competitive.

We'll see on the labor, but I think I can make it a wash, but what do I know anymore?

Edit: I should add that I have no idea how much tape I'll need. I'll figure that out in a minute, or if someone else does :-)

I have 41 sheets of 4x9 for each floor. So (82 sheets x 9')/90' rolls is 8.2, plus the rim, which will be a roll and a half, so I think I'm good with one case.

jkfox624 · 09-15-2009, 08:46 PM

Hmm so the tape is the killer then. Just figuring the last roof we framed 66' across the front 38' rafter run works out to if im right $2328 in tape. 8 vertical seems per horizontal run, 9 horizontal runs. So 9x8=72 vertical runs 288 feet there. 66x9= 594' tape 882 total. We used feltex under the shingles like $100 a roll, $300 in mats plus cap nails. one guy with cap nail gun one running the roll we had roof dried in in an hour. It looks like i cant justify using this even though i thought the sample was pretty cool looking.

Warren · 09-16-2009, 05:36 PM

From a framers perspective, I like the idea that at the end of a 90 degree day after laying sheets on the roof, we wouldn't have to apply felt if we use this system. Nothing worse than being worn out, on a steep roof, in 90 degree heat, laying hot, black felt to get things watered in. I will try to persuade a few GC's to try this.

Timuhler · 09-16-2009, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkfox624

Hmm so the tape is the killer then. Just figuring the last roof we framed 66' across the front 38' rafter run works out to if im right $2328 in tape. 8 vertical seems per horizontal run, 9 horizontal runs. So 9x8=72 vertical runs 288 feet there. 66x9= 594' tape 882 total. We used feltex under the shingles like $100 a roll, $300 in mats plus cap nails. one guy with cap nail gun one running the roll we had roof dried in in an hour. It looks like i cant justify using this even though i thought the sample was pretty cool looking.

I woke up last night and something about your numbers didn't seem right. On a roof, you'd only have 1/2 the number of edges to tape (running the 66' direction) and going up the 38' rafter length, you'd have

38' divided by 4' x 66' to get your long seem lengths for tape.

Make sense? So that would be 7 rolls

For the 4' edges, you'd have 66' divided by 8' panels = 8.25 and since most of those butt each other, lets say you have 6 4' seems to be taped, that is 24' per "run"

So call it 30' x 9.5(38' rafter length divided by 4')= 285

285/90'per rool= 3.167 rolls

So total for that side you'd be into 11 rolls, so that would be 2 cases to tape the seems for a straight gable roof your size. Add to that the hips and valleys.

That is still about $850 (round numbers)

Someone check my math, I'm not so good

Timuhler · 09-16-2009, 07:06 PM

I drew it out in SU and recounted

There are 9 long seems x 66'= 594 lin ft

I counted 80 4' seems so that is 320 ft

914 lin ft/90ft per roll = 10.15

So a case per side and you'd have a roll or so left.

jkfox624 · 09-16-2009, 07:46 PM

It seemed awfully high to me as well thats why i wrote it out for someone else to double check.

It was the end of a long day, been tearing the back half attic area off a 100 year old house with full pitch roof. 3 layers of asphalt overtop of shakes for the roof, vinyl siding over shakes over clapboards on the siding. Floor was hardwood, rough cut subfloor then 2x4 sleepers shimmed all to hell over more rough cut subfloor over 2x6 over 2x4 drop ceiling in kitchen with drywall. Had to tear the 15 layers of floor off and resupport cieling while we did it so we could tie it back up to our 2x12 floor all while not letting the ceiling get damaged or wet. Pretty much been the week from hell so my brains fried. Gotta love all that 100 year old black lung killing dust though, sure it took 5 years off my life. But hey today we got the walls and roof framed over the new second floor so things are looking up.

**loneframer** · 09-16-2009, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timuhler

I just got the prices emailed to me

1 case of 12 rolls of 3.75" x 90' tape= $411 or about $34/roll, so that is $2.64/foot

1 case 6 rolls 6"x90' = 212 or $35.33/roll or $2.54/foot

Tape gun is $98

Normally I think we pay about $25/roll 9'x75' of window flashing, so that is $3/ft. That isn't bad, I think the 6" roll is normally about $19. So the 6" Huber tape is competitive.

We'll see on the labor, but I think I can make it a wash, but what do I know anymore?

Edit: I should add that I have no idea how much tape I'll need. I'll figure that out in a minute, or if someone else does :-)

I have 41 sheets of 4x9 for each floor. So (82 sheets x 9')/90' rolls is 8.2, plus the rim, which will be a roll and a half, so I think I'm good with one case.

Am I missing something? 12 rolls at 90' per roll=1080 lineal feet.
$411 devided by 1080'= 38 cents a foot.

Timuhler · 09-17-2009, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loneframer

Am I missing something? 12 rolls at 90' per roll=1080 lineal feet.
$411 devided by 1080'= 38 cents a foot.

Where in Hades did my math come from?

Here is a copy paste from my invoice

1 CTN 3.75x90' Zip system tape 3.75ziptape 411.43*
PO # 54355 VEND # B00700 Qty : 1 Expected : 09/17/09
12 Rolls per carton

I'll get the paper invoice tomorrow. I think I'm reading that right, so you are correct Lone.

I have no idea what I was thinking, or not thinking when I posted that. Nice catch.

jkfox624 · 09-17-2009, 07:25 AM

Hehe in my defense i had the right lineal feet of tape i just multiplied by the per foot cost, didnt figure it out to the case.

Timuhler · 10-06-2009, 06:20 PM

Guys,

My brother and I started framing a new one 2 weeks ago. Here is a link to the progress pics to far http://picasaweb.google.com/TimothyU...eat=directlink

I love the Zip. You sheathe the wall like normal, and it takes almost no time to tape the seams. I'll add up the total when we get done that we paid and the total for OSB and Tyvek, and then see what our labor is.

You know one thing to that has to be figured is that to get the warranty from Tyvek, you have to do a lot of work to the WRB. I bet most of us don't detail Tyvek or similar as well as we could, we just blast it on.

So if you compared Zip to Tyvek installed to their spec's, I'm thinking this is a more compelling product than I first thought. Add to that being dried in, and I'm hearing from other guys that run blower door tests that you the house is very tight using this stuff.

So add the energy efficiency into the mix too as a marketing tool . . . .

oldfrt · 10-06-2009, 07:57 PM

Timuhler,

Thanks for that link to the pics.
I enjoyed them,evenpicked up a couple tips there.

09-14-2009, 08:21 PM	#42
Timuhler View Profile Timuhler Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (711) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Framer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Port Orchard, WA Posts: 711	Re: Zip System Sheathing, Anybody Using It? Posted this over at JLC too. I priced out the Zip Wall today. 4x8 $13.44 4x8 reg OSB $6.05 4x9 $16.36 4x9 reg OSB $8.24 4x10 $18.70 4x10 reg OSB $?? I didn't ask Plus Tape Now, I'm very intrigued by this product. I'm personally not worried about the tape. Reason is that we've had Vycor on the forklift mast for 7 years in the direct weather and it will not come off, even if I work on getting it off. I believe that the tape will bond to the facing on the sheathing and if you pull it off, then part of the panel itself will come with it. In addition to that, there is going to be siding nailed up to it and through it (self-healing is nice too) so its not going to go anywhere. We run our sheathing vertically here (because is smart :-)), so our vertical seams will start under the eaves and head south. The horizontal are the ones that concern me, but you know? I'll tape those as we side. With tape like this a reverse lap ever 16" isn't a big deal, Vycor used to say that once that tape is stuck to another peice, the lap isn't relevant. I don't know if the website still says that, I'll check. I have talked to guys who have used this product and it will go on even when the sheathing is slightly damp. We are going to start a little 1800 sq ft house on a lot with a view that we have and keep the project under 300k (since that is still moving somewhat here) and so cost is a major issue. I'll be doing the framing and siding with my brother and the roofing (we already formed and "placed" the foundation). This will be a test subject for us. I'm working on getting a good discount to get the materials and tape for the same price as housewrap and OSB (pronounced on my jobsites as ahhhzzzbbb). So we'll see. I'm going to try and take pictures, and keep a detailed account of this. One thing I for us is that not installing and repair housewrap will help in siding costs, not marking out studs, etc. I can run housewrap myself pretty quickly, but I can also install siding quickly. I really think that this can speed up siding. My plan is to sheathe the walls when they are on the deck as we always do, and tape the seams. This county we are building in doesn't have a shear inspection, so we can do this. I plan on building the rakewalls w/overhangs as well as building the rafter walls w/ closed soffits already installed. I did this a few months ago and it worked out great. I'm also planning on 16" overhangs. Except at a few corners, all the zip will be installed and taped before the walls lifted. I think we can tape the seams in about the same time as we install and cut out housewrap when we install this first. But we'll see. . . . __________________ http://picasaweb.google.com/TimothyUhler www.pioneerbuildersonline.com https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/1...0542215/albums

09-14-2009, 08:29 PM	#43
Paulie View Profile Paulie Grand Rapids Remodeling Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (2,345) Photos (23) Reviews (0) Projects (1) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Grand Rapids Remodeling Trade: Remodeling Contractor Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Grand Rapids, MI. Posts: 2,345	Re: Zip System Sheathing, Anybody Using It? Thanks for the price check. I sent for the information packet and got it a few days ago. I looked it over and still didn't see any prices. www.phbconstruction.com Last edited by Paulie; 11-16-2009 at 09:55 AM.

09-14-2009, 08:49 PM	#44
knucklehead View Profile knucklehead Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,931) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Framing,Remodeling,General Contractor Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Kansas City Posts: 1,931	Re: Zip System Sheathing, Anybody Using It? So , what I want to know is do you have to space it like regular OSB?

09-14-2009, 09:03 PM	#46
Timuhler View Profile Timuhler Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (711) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Framer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Port Orchard, WA Posts: 711	Re: Zip System Sheathing, Anybody Using It? Found it http://www.zipsystem.com/installatio...sheathing.aspx If I'm watching that correcty, you can butt them tight if installing vertically because they are self gapping, but if you butt them 4' edge to 4' edge like sheathing a roof, then you have to gap it. __________________ http://picasaweb.google.com/TimothyUhler www.pioneerbuildersonline.com https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/1...0542215/albums

09-15-2009, 10:34 AM	#48
N.Schiffer View Profile N.Schiffer Member Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (98) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Member Trade: Custom Carpentry Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: SE, Massachusetts Posts: 98	Re: Zip System Sheathing, Anybody Using It? I'm seeing this stuff sprout very fast in my area, and I myself am very eager to try it. __________________ Nick Schiffer Specializing in Custom Sheds Custom Carpentry & General Construction

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09-15-2009, 07:25 PM	#49
jkfox624 View Profile jkfox624 Jeff Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,109) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (1) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Jeff Trade: master turd burglar Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Bradford PA Posts: 1,109	Re: Zip System Sheathing, Anybody Using It? How much does the tape add to your price Tim? Housewrap prices out like $3 per 4x8 sheet + labor around here. I would imagine vertically taping seems on the floor the time spent would be negligable but then there have been times we've wrapped walls on the deck then taped seems when its up so labor is a wash.

09-15-2009, 08:46 PM	#51
jkfox624 View Profile jkfox624 Jeff Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,109) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (1) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Jeff Trade: master turd burglar Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Bradford PA Posts: 1,109	Re: Zip System Sheathing, Anybody Using It? Hmm so the tape is the killer then. Just figuring the last roof we framed 66' across the front 38' rafter run works out to if im right $2328 in tape. 8 vertical seems per horizontal run, 9 horizontal runs. So 9x8=72 vertical runs 288 feet there. 66x9= 594' tape 882 total. We used feltex under the shingles like $100 a roll, $300 in mats plus cap nails. one guy with cap nail gun one running the roll we had roof dried in in an hour. It looks like i cant justify using this even though i thought the sample was pretty cool looking.

09-16-2009, 05:36 PM	#52
Warren View Profile Warren Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (3,696) Photos (35) Reviews (6) Projects (1) Toolbox (10) View All Activity Pro Trade: framing/remodeling Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 3,696	Re: Zip System Sheathing, Anybody Using It? From a framers perspective, I like the idea that at the end of a 90 degree day after laying sheets on the roof, we wouldn't have to apply felt if we use this system. Nothing worse than being worn out, on a steep roof, in 90 degree heat, laying hot, black felt to get things watered in. I will try to persuade a few GC's to try this.

09-16-2009, 07:06 PM	#54
Timuhler View Profile Timuhler Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (711) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Framer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Port Orchard, WA Posts: 711	Re: Zip System Sheathing, Anybody Using It? I drew it out in SU and recounted There are 9 long seems x 66'= 594 lin ft I counted 80 4' seems so that is 320 ft 914 lin ft/90ft per roll = 10.15 So a case per side and you'd have a roll or so left. Attached Thumbnails __________________ http://picasaweb.google.com/TimothyUhler www.pioneerbuildersonline.com https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/1...0542215/albums

09-16-2009, 07:46 PM	#55
jkfox624 View Profile jkfox624 Jeff Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,109) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (1) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Jeff Trade: master turd burglar Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Bradford PA Posts: 1,109	Re: Zip System Sheathing, Anybody Using It? It seemed awfully high to me as well thats why i wrote it out for someone else to double check. It was the end of a long day, been tearing the back half attic area off a 100 year old house with full pitch roof. 3 layers of asphalt overtop of shakes for the roof, vinyl siding over shakes over clapboards on the siding. Floor was hardwood, rough cut subfloor then 2x4 sleepers shimmed all to hell over more rough cut subfloor over 2x6 over 2x4 drop ceiling in kitchen with drywall. Had to tear the 15 layers of floor off and resupport cieling while we did it so we could tie it back up to our 2x12 floor all while not letting the ceiling get damaged or wet. Pretty much been the week from hell so my brains fried. Gotta love all that 100 year old black lung killing dust though, sure it took 5 years off my life. But hey today we got the walls and roof framed over the new second floor so things are looking up. Last edited by jkfox624; 09-16-2009 at 07:57 PM.

09-17-2009, 07:25 AM	#58
jkfox624 View Profile jkfox624 Jeff Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,109) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (1) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Jeff Trade: master turd burglar Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Bradford PA Posts: 1,109	Re: Zip System Sheathing, Anybody Using It? Hehe in my defense i had the right lineal feet of tape i just multiplied by the per foot cost, didnt figure it out to the case.

10-06-2009, 06:20 PM	#59
Timuhler View Profile Timuhler Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (711) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Framer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Port Orchard, WA Posts: 711	Re: Zip System Sheathing, Anybody Using It? Guys, My brother and I started framing a new one 2 weeks ago. Here is a link to the progress pics to far http://picasaweb.google.com/TimothyU...eat=directlink I love the Zip. You sheathe the wall like normal, and it takes almost no time to tape the seams. I'll add up the total when we get done that we paid and the total for OSB and Tyvek, and then see what our labor is. You know one thing to that has to be figured is that to get the warranty from Tyvek, you have to do a lot of work to the WRB. I bet most of us don't detail Tyvek or similar as well as we could, we just blast it on. So if you compared Zip to Tyvek installed to their spec's, I'm thinking this is a more compelling product than I first thought. Add to that being dried in, and I'm hearing from other guys that run blower door tests that you the house is very tight using this stuff. So add the energy efficiency into the mix too as a marketing tool . . . . __________________ http://picasaweb.google.com/TimothyUhler www.pioneerbuildersonline.com https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/1...0542215/albums

10-06-2009, 07:57 PM	#60
oldfrt View Profile oldfrt Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (2,044) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Remodeling Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Northwest Connecticut Posts: 2,044	Re: Zip System Sheathing, Anybody Using It? Timuhler, Thanks for that link to the pics. I enjoyed them,evenpicked up a couple tips there. __________________ https://www.facebook.com/pages/John-...94183374011504

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