Trusses?

loneframer

Perfect example of the flexibility of trusses North. 1 question though. WTF is the insulated foamboard trough for?

Warren

You know, I don't understand how electricity works either, but I won't condemn it. I can stick frame with the best of them. I frame a lot of homes that are large (10k sq ft+) and trusses must be used for the larger spans. I have worked with many engineers and truss designers. Some of them good, and some not so good. I really appreciate the ability of trusses to increase productivity and to span large distances. That being said, the erection and bracing of trusses is critical to achieve proper performance. I have however seen more failures in stick framed roofs than trusses.

I have been 29 for 14 years.

Stewy

Another reason for more roof and floor trusses being used today is the trees are getting smaller and trusses are built with smaller dimensional lumber and bits , pieces and osb etc. The days of the large old growth logs are gone.

Framer53

I have lived and framed for years here in upstate NY. The reason as I see it for more trusses is the lack of quality help. The education of framers today precludes most of them haveing to learn to cut rafters. I say thank God, or lots of houses would still be being built.
When you hire somone and then have to teach them to read a tape, there might be a problem, with them figuring rafters!!

mccarty.74

My lumber yard has not yet alerted me of a shortage of SPF or yellow pine. I've never seen a truss that included any OSB. I-joists maybe?

__________________
What would you say...ya do here?

Warren

We have had a few girders that had a timberstrand web which a huge hanger would nail/bolt to. Apparently this helps prevent the web from splitting. Trying to nail into that web was like nailing into hardwood.

Birch

I will build with either Trusses or Rafters. It makes no difference to me. I do think that trusses are easier to create greater spanned spaces with.

We used to site build our own trusses from jigs on the deck (glued and nailed plywood gussets), stock them off the end and raise them up after the walls were stood. Some plans came with the truss details.

I've built a lot of girder trusses to support conventional framed roofs too. Girder drawings also used to be included as on generic “Typical” detail sheets.

mics_54

I'm so ignorant...I do you stick frame a 50 foot clearspan building roof?

ClemS

how old do i need to be to really know something?
2x4s stapled together with gussets are still 2x4s stapled together with gussets.
the only reason ya'll swear by trusses is because you can't frame worth a damn to begin with

UpNorth

Why are you so bitter about trusses, Clem? What's the deal?

Do you refuse to buy plywood, I-joists, or other kinds of engineered building materials? Do you refuse to use air tools? How about electricity? Can you figure a whole roof-cutting job using only a framing square?

Get off the island and see what is going on in the world of residential construction.

Gus Dering

Who the heck gets to decide which way to go anyway?

That ship has usually sailed by the time we gwt to even look at the plans.

Clem, you would serve yourself well to develope a great system for what ever comes your way and keep your strong opinions for your posse. Your clients want you to produce what has been drawn with a smile.

By the time I get to meet an owner, one of the first things I do is congratulate them on getting this far as I am sensitive to the monumental achievement it is. They love to be understood that way.

They don't want to hear some heavy weighted opinion that there is a problem with the plans. Pick your battles and choose ones that can be won. That is after you have eaned the trust and respect of the one that writes your check.

Who really cares if the roof is stick or truss once they are in it and living their life anyway?

I'm only trying to help. I'm not attacking you. You sound like me when I was your age.

__________________
Every parent who has walked barefoot into their child's room late at night hates Legos

ClemS

not bitter at all North. and trusses don't really affect me much, since they're rarely used around here.
i have nothing against engineered, i just don't like pre-fab. speaking for myself only, i can say without a doubt that my frames are tighter than anything that might come out of a factory. someone else's frames might be a different story

ClemS

2 out of 3 plans i get i end up revising and tweaking. i do know when to keep my mouth shut with people (most of the time), but this is a discussions forum for professionals (and i use the term loosely).
to me a 2x12 rafter with collar-ties and ceiling joists will always be better than a bunch of 2x4s strutted together. just a matter of preference of course

Willie T

You asked how old you have to be.
I do volunteer work teaching a behavioral modification class to ex-offenders. Many of them ask the very same question while informing me of how the world should be run.
As I say to them, I now submit to you that perhaps when you can truly understand the wisdom within this story, you will be approaching that point.
******************
The Old Man and the White Horse

Max Lucado (In the Eye of the Storm)
The Old Man and the White Horse

Once there was an old man who lived in a tiny village. Although poor, he was envied by all, for he owned a beautiful white horse. Even the king coveted his treasure. A horse like this had never been seen before – such was its splendor, its majesty, its strength.

People offered fabulous prices for the steed, but the old man always refused. “This horse is not a horse to me,” he would tell them. “It is a person. How could you sell a person? He is a friend, not a possession. How could you sell a friend.” The man was poor and the temptation was great. But he never sold the horse.

One morning he found that the horse was not in his stable. All the village came to see him. “You old fool,” they scoffed, “we told you that someone would steal your horse. We warned you that you would be robbed. You are so poor. How could you ever protect such a valuable animal? It would have been better to have sold him. You could have gotten whatever price you wanted. No amount would have been too high. Now the horse is gone and you’ve been cursed with misfortune.”

The old man responded, “Don’t speak too quickly. Say only that the horse is not in the stable. That is all we know; the rest is judgment. If I’ve been cursed or not, how can you know? How can you judge?”

The people contested, “Don’t make us out to be fools! We may not be philosophers, but great philosophy is not needed. The simple fact that your horse is gone is a curse.”

The old man spoke again. “All I know is that the stable is empty, and the horse is gone. The rest I don’t know. Whether it be a curse or a blessing, I can’t say. All we can see is a fragment. Who can say what will come next?”

The people of the village laughed. They thought that the man was crazy. They had always thought he was a fool; if he wasn’t, he would have sold the horse and lived off the money. But instead, he was a poor woodcutter, an old man still cutting firewood and dragging it out of the forest and selling it. He lived hand to mouth in the misery of poverty. Now he had proven that he was, indeed, a fool.

After fifteen days, the horse returned. He hadn’t been stolen; he had run away into the forest. Not only had he returned, he had brought a dozen wild horses with him. Once again, the village people gathered around the woodcutter and spoke. “Old man, you were right and we were wrong. What we thought was a curse was a blessing. Please forgive us.”

The man responded, “Once again, you go too far. Say only that the horse is back. State only that a dozen horses returned with him, but don’t judge. How do you know if this is a blessing or not? You see only a fragment. Unless you know the whole story, how can you judge? You read only one page of a book. Can you judge the whole book? You read only one word of one phrase. Can you understand the entire phrase?”

“Life is so vast, yet you judge all of life with one page or one word. All you have is one fragment! Don’t say that this is a blessing. No one knows. I am content with what I know. I am not perturbed by what I don’t.”

“Maybe the old man is right,” they said to one another. So they said little. But down deep, they knew he was wrong. They knew it was a blessing. Twelve wild horses had returned. With a little work, the animals could be broken and trained and sold for much money.

The old man had a son, an only son. The young man began to break the wild horses. After a few days, he fell from one of the horses and broke both legs. Once again the villagers gathered around the old man and cast their judgments.

“You were right,” they said. “You proved you were right. The dozen horses were not a blessing. They were a curse. Your only son has broken both his legs, and now in your old age you have no one to help you. Now you are poorer than ever.”

The old man spoke again. “You people are obsessed with judging. Don’t go so far. Say only that my son broke his legs. Who knows if it is a blessing or a curse? No one knows. We only have a fragment. Life comes in fragments.”

It so happened that a few weeks later the country engaged in war against a neighboring country. All the young men of the village were required to join the army. Only the son of the old man was excluded, because he was injured. Once again the people gathered around the old man, crying and screaming because their sons had been taken. There was little chance that they would return. The enemy was strong, and the war would be a losing struggle. They would never see their sons again.

“You were right, old man,” They wept. “God knows you were right. This proves it. Your son’s accident was a blessing. His legs may be broken, but at least he is with you. Our sons are gone forever.”

The old man spoke again. “It is impossible to talk with you. You always draw conclusions. No one knows. Say only this. Your sons had to go to war, and mine did not. No one knows if it is a blessing or a curse. No one is wise enough to know. Only God knows.”

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"True eloquence consists in saying all that is necessary, and only that which is."
François Duc de La Rochefoucauld
Bill Everett - St. Petersburg, FL

ClemS

on a side note. I started framing when I was 16.

at 18 I cut my own roofs.

I worked for a home improvements contractor for 5 or so years.

past 4 years I've ran anywhere from 2 to 10 men on framing work exclusively. I work for a number of general contractors in the area who hire me for my expertise and don't question my numbers (most of the time). So I really have 0 to prove to anyone whose only argument is the fact that I may be 10 years junior. especially since you probably haven't framed anything in years

Gus Dering

That is a pretty bold statement considering the company we keep here.

You are right on schedule with your maturation process, best I can tell. At your age you need that cockiness to boost your confidence through your lack of experience. Most of us older guys can relate to that. Some won't be so gentile about pointing it out though.

__________________
Every parent who has walked barefoot into their child's room late at night hates Legos

Warren

Some are cocky and that can make them blind to the obvious. Some are confident, and open to new ideas and different points of view. Confidence is a trait that will serve you well in this business. Cockiness will only lead to single mindedness and friction.

UpNorth

Here's a piece of news for you, Clem. Roof cutting isn't rocket science., and stacking up walls and building floorframes isn't either.

A framer is one piece of the puzzle in putting together a house. There are lots of other trades involved, and some of those are as complex, or more so, than yours.

You may be a good tradesman, an excellent manager of other tradesmen, a savvy small businessman, and more. None of that gives you the right to put down those who figure out and use efficient ways of putting modern buildings together.

That truck you drive was engineered in a cube farm, "pre-fab'd" in a whole universe of supplier plants, and put together in an assembly plant, by brilliant guys like you that do the same thing, over again every day, whistle to whistle.

Frankly, your rants sounds a little phony. You sure you're not some nerdy truss engineer hiding behind the veil of the web, using your anonymity, and fooling us all?

mccarty.74

Damn Clem, did you have a bad week? You're not normally this animated. Don't get unraveled over trusses. They're perfectly acceptable by industry standards. Some prefer 'em some don't.

__________________
What would you say...ya do here?

ClemS

if you re-read the thread you'll be surprised at how little I said and how much I was assaulted on counts that don't even pertain to trusses. if I was to make conclusions from this "discussion" I'd come out with this.

"the older you are, the better you're able to appreciate trussed roofs"