Top-mount Vs. Face

ClemS

here's my situation. one of my upcoming gigs is a 4k foot house. originally they had the steel girders in the basement dropped with a 12" tji floor on top. easy enough.

then the kid said he wants to tuck the steel flush to the floor. dropped all the beams in the mudhole for us to pack out and set the tji's up on facemount hangers. which to me is a ton of extra work, plus the beams will still drop around 1/2" lower than the bottom of a 12" tji.

the alternative is to plate the top of the steel with an lvl ripped to size, upsize to a 14" tji to keep everything flush and use top-mount hangers. now....

i've used topmounts to drop entire decks before, but was never too comfortable doing it. mostly because of the suspension effect, the bottoms are all fairly loose.

anyone care to throw in your two cents? and no, i don't care what simpson or the engineers say.

KentWhitten

truss it

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If you correct your mind, the rest of your life will fall into place ~Lao Tzu

Custom Cabinetry - Portland, Cape Elizabeth, Scarborough, Kennebunkport, Yarmouth, Falmouth, Cumberland, Ogunquit, Maine

Salmon Falls Cabinetry

ClemS

no way! i actually like this guy and i've met his kids!

KentWhitten

I don't know, why not try something silly like do what the plans say to do.

__________________
If you correct your mind, the rest of your life will fall into place ~Lao Tzu

Custom Cabinetry - Portland, Cape Elizabeth, Scarborough, Kennebunkport, Yarmouth, Falmouth, Cumberland, Ogunquit, Maine

Salmon Falls Cabinetry

loneframer

I've packed the web on dozens of steel I-beams. It's not that time consuming. I glue all the laminations, fill one side, trap them with pony clamps, drill through, pack the other side, drill back through and bolt with carriage bolts. 20' beam takes about an hour with 2 guys. I like the positive connection with facemounts. I also drop some glue in the hanger and run a Simpson screw up through the bottom diamond in the hangers. I got into the habit of leaving the joists about 1/8" short to minimize squeeks, although packing the webs and toe-nailing into the beam is another option. Flush steel beams are notorious for hanger squeeks, as well as nails in the decking where they don't belong. I always use wood X-bridging, even on I joists.

FramerKid

it will take a considerable amount of time and effort to pack these out, I'd say most of the day to get all that geared up and prepped for framing. I think I'll still go that route regardless, seems like a much tighter product when all is said and done.

loneframer

I've done the topmounts with a 2x6 bolted to the flange and thought it seemed a little hokey. Seemed to work out fine, just looked unfinished to me.

FramerKid

i did a 6k foot house with the deck that hung off an 8" stem wall, with all kinds of parallams and other goodies going on. it does have a flaky feel to it.
i am just looking for an easy way out of spending a day in that hole working these beams. one of them is a w12x89 which has a 12 flange.
i could weld these hangers on but i hate the way weld fillet makes the plywood ride high over beams.

guess i'll just suck it up for a day and get it done the "right" way

loneframer

Holy shnikeys, 12x89? I'll send sasquatch and the missing link over to help.

FramerKid

yea he upsized to eliminate most of his basement columns. he is a nice enough guys and i did about 8-9 second stories for him so far. this is his own house so I gave him a set price before he went loony toon.

i did big beams like that, but always off a slab. he is afraid to backfill until I get the deck done so it's like a mexican standoff - I don't want to jump in the hole, he is paranoid about a landslide

loneframer

I had a builder who refused to backfill until he was ready for final grade, to eliminate a second trip by the ecavator. I did about five homes for him before I went back to building off of pilings. I found it easier to start 8' up than working around a moat.

Joe Carola

I've dome this several times before and they don't move believe it or not. we glue and bolt lvl's to the top of the I-beam and just use top-mount hangers and that's it. Have to pack out the I-joist at each side of the hanger when doing this.

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Joe Carola

FramerKid

when i did developments, 9 out of 10 times the homes were not backfilled - but they were single span boxes with nothing going on in the basement. we'd get the deck done by 10 am and be in the clear. on these bigger homes it's a headache - especially due to lot constrictions, the moat is actually the rest of the property.

so we have. the hole. the moat. and the pile of dirt.
the pile of lumber is more often than not on top of the pile of dirt. a one day deck turns into a 3 day ordeal.
and on top of all that long island is hurricane zone now so we have to do hold-downs before we get out of the ground. major pain.
they look nice when they're finished though

Joe Carola

Not if you use the I-beams from "Better Header" because they come packed out already.

http://www.betterheader.com/ibeam.asp

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Joe Carola

loneframer

Even if the hanger traps the top flange? I thought that was an exception.

loneframer

That lot constraint is similar to Ocean City. 4-5' side setbacks and 15-20' front and back. Add a pile of lumber on one end or the other and it's game on.

FramerKid

better header has been screwing up lately. plus it isn't really in the job to pay $300 a foot for a w12x89 packed out. i like what you're saying about the top-mounts. it's an easy way out for me.
i always block my webs regardless.

FramerKid

on new houses i try to get stuff boomed up that way i am not sifting through a huge pile. doesn't always work that way though.

i think joe is going to talk me into hanging this kid's deck jump on that bandwagon it doesn't take long to convince me to take the easy way out

loneframer

I'd be in line with that coarse of action too. That 12x89 is a lot of packing.

I was using the booms alot with one builder. Shorter loads, more frequently.

katoman

If it's a poured bsmt. after 7 days you can backfill. If it's block, no way I'd backfill till the floors on.