Seems Like Everyone Frames Differently..

ruskent

From ages 14-17 i worked with the top framer in the area. I was a laborer, but i got to do some nailing and stuff. Most importantly i watch everything the guys did and learn a hell of alot.

This winter i am doing some sub work for a GC. I been working along his framing crew for the past year and there are alot of little things they do differently then i was taught. One way may or not be better than the other, i just always thought everyone did things the same way.

They were putting the headers in after the walls were nailed up. We always nailed the header to the plate first. Where two plates over lap on the top of walls we always hand nailed 4 hand tens, they just shot in a couple nails with the gun. They only do 1 sill for the window. We always did double. When nailing the studs to the plates we always built triangle or used blocks to rest the plate on so it sat about 2 feet of the deck instead of bending all the way to the ground to nail. They never heard of that.

Theres alot more things they do differently, but i'd be hear typing all day if i listed them all. How do you do it?

K2

You'll probably find bigger differences than the ones you described if you traveled around the country. Sounds like you are toe nailing studs and I would say that is not done in most of the U.S. ..But it all works well.

Joe Carola

Ruskent,

Where are you from? I'm from NJ and we nail our shoe/sole plate down on all snapped lines and then tack the first/bottom of the two top plates to the shoe and then nail the top plate to the tacked plate and lay out studs, windows, doors, joists above, beams above waste lines... etc and then pull the two top plates back and then toenail all our studs and raise the walls and sheath when the house is done.

Other parts of the Country facenails and sheaths the walls while there down on the deck and then lift them using wall jacks. That's one difference you'll get on all these forums.

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redwing510

You'll find many different ways to do things. I've always told my new (usually younger guys) help that they will see many ways of doing things, THEY should pick out what the best way they feel is right and most productive with the same quality end result, then, when they go in to business for themselves they can do it that way. But since your working for me, unless you convince me another way is better (and it has happened), my way is the way I want it done. Not because I'm a premadonna, but because its my name on the work.

benchmark2323

good call redwing

jmic

When I had my framing crews 70's - 90's we always did as much work with the walls on the deck as we could. I admit the houses back then were alot more simplified compared to some of the shacks they're doing now adays. We'd frame, sheath, do all our exterior trim on gables, front and rear walls we'd build all our soffits and facia. We'd use Motorola 2-ways to call another crew to come lift walls or sometimes use the wall jacks. Always thought that was the quickest way, but then I'm sure we all do.

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Nick H

Redwing, like i always say, theres my way and the right way, and its the same fu**ing way.

K2

I always said "no matter how you do it, it's hard work and it doesn't pay enough"... But we loved it.

JustaFramer

I like to see forward progress. What I don't want is having to fix bad work when it's time to do punch.

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K2

You know everyone frames differently. Could be a prob globally.

old27

a good framer does as much as possible when walls or gables are on the deck. I don't mean to start the sheathing war again, but plywood is a breeze when walls are not stood up. Always double everything in openings (bearing obviously and non bearing too), meaning king and jack and double stools. It gives the trim guy something to nail to in the long run. putting headers in late is absurd. the two feet off the deck framing is a foreign concept. sounds like a time waster.

K2

I learned to frame in North Jersey and worked there for over 5 years. Then I spent most of my life framing in Colorado so I'm pretty well experienced at a couple styles of framing. Also the nature of our boom city brings in trades people from all 52 states. I'm certain we've employed framers from all of those states except maybe Alaska. I believe I've heard all the different terms and seen hundreds of different ways to do the same thing.<P>

I always liked the way I learned in N.J. but it was not practical when running large crews of guys with no experience in that style.

Ruskent. We used to raise our plates on cinder blocks to build the walls back in the 60's. I'm reasonably certain that my boss was the the only one doing that at that time.

Joe Carola

If you don't want to start wars then don't make statements like " a good framer does as much as possible when walls or gables are on the deck" because it's just not true at all.

I've seen many wars over the sheathing the walls first and not sheathing the walls first and toenailing vs facenailing and there all ridiculous.

I've been framing for 22 years and I moved to Cape Cod for a year back in 1984 and I learned how to frame facenailing and sheathing the walls before you stand them up so I know what it's like to frame both ways. I tried to show guys this system here and I’ve used it here especially on big gable walls but it just didin’;t seem to catch on since we have sheathing crews. You can’t beat these guys and once we’re done framing we can get the house water tight faster and move onto the next project.

Here in NJ no one frames facenailing and sheathing the walls on the deck. We toenail our walls and nail all headers in and lift the walls and fill in jack studs window jacks and sills and then we call in sheathing crews that will sheath a 4000 s/f house in 3-4 hours.

The arguments I get into with guys are the one who have only framed one way and that's facenailing and sheathing the walls on the deck. These are the guys who have absolutely no idea what they're talking about so they have no argument.

We all do things different obviously and get the same good results and get things done in the same amount of time.

Old, I consider myself a good framer and an experienced one and lucky enough to experience different ways of framing but I wouldn't say that if your only good if you sheath the walls on the deck. I would say that no matter what way you frame try to get good at your way and make it as efficient as possible for you.

Have you ever framed my way before?

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Joe Carola

Nick H

Still reckon my ways better, trouble is I aint telling you what it is.

bergenbldr

I am realy only familar with the new jersey method mentioned by another poster ,in the parts where i work only hacks face nail studs,i would venture that a toe nailed stud is a far stronger connection,5 nails driven at opposing angles v/s 2 16ds. As for installing headers after walls are raised i have only done this with 2x6 walls ,to reduce the weight before lifting. My current and preferred method for 2x6 walls is to install the headers and every other stud ,if shorthanded will also use this method with 2x4 walls.

ruskent

In my area face nailing won't pass inspection.

The sheathing crews we have around here are amazing. 6-7 mexicans hop out of a van and within minutes they are climbing/crawling all over the house like ants. The amount of sheets they can get up in a day in almost unreal.

Tom R

Face-nailing won't pass inspection, - - and rightfully so, - - because the inspectors can't see it.

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K2

For me the houses got bigger and more chopped up. With 75 to 100 different roof planes, a couple of hundred pages of roof truss details, and an impossible schedule, whether I toenailed of face nailed didn't seem very important. <P>

Now I might frame a couple of walls on one of my own properties. Toe nails for sure.<P>

I think there are good framers either way and hacks either way. With the availability of reasonably priced cranes, panel framing can be pretty nice on those 30 ft. high boatail walls .

I still say it doesn't pay enough no matter which method you use. They're doing the plans in Espanol around here. Bueno Suerte!

Joe Carola

Tom,

When I framed in the Cape I would ask how the inspectors could tell if they were using the right amount of nails since you can't see the nails and I would get answers like they assume there's the right amount ot they can tell by the trying to twist the studs.

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