forsmant

I work for a remodeling company and we began a small addition which required a large roof. The roof is a hip and we had to extend the front roof about five feet to a new ridge. I was working on a different project and only participated in the new roof construction for one day. I filled in the hip and valley sections of our new roof. There were many problems with planing. To me the Hip was too low according to the height above the plate, but raising it made it not plane with the commons. The Lead came up with the plane of cutting the seat cuts deeper until all the commons plane. Fair enough. We finished the roof and I was a little annoyed that things weren't sitting right.

The next day I worked at this job we were bracing a the common side of the new roof from a header to form a plumb wall in a new vaulted ceiling area. The wall was plumb but the height was 2 inches different from one end to the other. The wall is parallel to the outside wall and the headers are level. I start by saying something is out of square or out of level and try to figure it out. I look up and plane the level header to the ridge and see the ridge is falling in the same direction as my stub wall. I say to everyone who cares that the ridge is out of level. This pisses the lead off and he claims he planed the ridge from the front roof and that was more important. Fair enough.

Two weeks later the stub wall is still two inches different from one end to the other and I get the feeling I am the only one who cares. I go to the front and check the laning of the ridge. It is not a pretty site. I feel frustrated and ignored. Not to mentioned embarassed that my name goes on this project too.

MOre of a rant than anything

Winchester

Who's the boss?

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loneframer

People who don't know what they are doing don't like to be reminded of that fact. Whoever was layout man for the roof framing obviously didn't have a grasp on the project at hand. Issues that probably stemmed from the foundation up. The heel of the hip rafter should be the same as the commons and jacks at the plateline. It is possible that the common used to pin the ridge from the adjacent wall was too long or too short, which would cause the ridge to be out of level. If the pitches on either side of the hip are the same, the commons should also be the same. If the pitches differ, the hip should not sit perfectly on the corner of the wall if the overhangs are the same on either side of the hip. Hope this info is helpful.

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" It's a Jersey thing, you wouldn't understand"

Warren

Doesn't matter what the existing does. The new work should plane in only where it directly meets. The rest of the new part needs to be plumb/level/square/true/flush. I agree with loneframer. You gotta pick better guys cause these ones have no clue.

forsmant

Thanks guys. The problem as far as I can tell, started when they extended the front side of the roof. That extension does not plane with the rest of the front which caused the ridge to sit out of level. I was not there on the days the majority of the roof was built. This is the cause as far as I can tell and it really irks me. I am just a carpenter on this crew. I told the lead when I figured out why I was having so many problems doing the tasks I was given when I was on this job site. Then I told the superintendent of this job and the problem still has not been addressed. Going to the big boss, the owner of the company, really isn't my style.

If I could pick better guys I would.

ClemS

i agree with the other posters. new work should always be true or very close to. typically i try to hit the transition point dead on. if the existing is way out and there's no way to rectify the structure, i keep new framing slightly higher and try to weave into the existing to diminish the step effect.

a good example would be an addition I framed recently. it went on a depression era balloon framed home and the outside wall that was being extended was an inch and a quarter out of plumb leaning out. I kept the new wall plumb and square to make roof framing a snap and then lost it in the cedar shake siding by cutting tapers to go behind the courses.

renovation work typically requires a certain amount of know-how, since everything is always slightly or grotesquely out of whack.

forsmant

Yesterday this little addition was inspected. We had four red tags, seemingly minor. The inspector crawled into the crawl space and found that our anchor bolts had no washers and we needed to a bolt 12" from the splice. Why wouldn't our lead framer go get the washers on the day the deck was built? Anyway, I had to crawl under there and place all the washers but on the return wall the joist was so close that my hand could not reach the top of the bolts. I had to cut holes in the sub floor to finish. The one we had to add the superintendent wanted to cut a j bolt and fake it by giving the appearance that it was there the whole time. I went and bought one of those anchor bolts that pass when you drill them into the foundation and installed that instead. Lots of extra work for anchor bolts! Just do it right before you frame the floor and the addition on top.

There also needed to be bearing blocks between the foundation and our new load points. That was easy, or so I thought until I found out that one of the loads was sitting on a wall that was not above a foundation. The lead framer moved the beam in about 6 inches and lost the bearing point. I told him that that would happen on the first day I was there but I wasn't there the day the beams were set to remind him. To fix this we had to empty out the HO's pantry and build a post that eats up and 10" by 10" square out of the corner. The pantry was not in the bid to have any work done. Now the pantry needs drywall, paint and modified shelves. The HO is not a happy camper.

The third tag involves a special hanger the we had fabricated specifically for the purpose of hanging a 16" double LVL beam to another LVL beam. The beams are at different hieghts by approximately 6" so and the hanger is something like 20" tall. We have to have this approved by an engineer in order for the city let it fly. I suggested to the super that this might be coming because the hanger is unusual. He agreed but decided to get an inspection first anyways. That one is out of my hands as I am merley a grunt carpenter on this crew. My word means nothing compared to an engineers calculations. This one will probably pass but we shall see.

The final red tag was for two 2 x 10s without hangers. That was as easy as it sounded. I wish they were all that easy. I am six feet two and crawling around in the damp crawl space with insulation rubbing off on my back and head just to put in some washers left me irritable, ichy, and sore. Not to mention that this morning I was told to head to the job that is 45 minutes away before getting a call to turn around and come fix these red tags. I was alomost there! guys get your story striaght. Just a whinny little vent. Thanks for listening.

framerman

No washers on anchor bolts. You are on a jack crew my friend. Either talk to your boss about leading or find a better company to work for.

__________________
If one advances confidently in the direction of one's dreams,
and endeavors to live the life which one has imagined,
one will meet with a success unexpected in common hours
~Henry David Thoreau

Home Work Pro

I would confidentially speak with your super/boss and let him know you would be interested in leading a crew.That is, if your ready, willing and able to take on those responsibilities.

While waiting, I would be very carefull of calling someone out on the job.

Make sure your work and your jobsites are perfect and continue by looking for advancement or another company to work for.

Burnt bridges are very difficult to re-cross.

greg24k

I agree with the rest of the guys, forman don't knows s^*t on that crew or anyone else for that matter. Start looking for a new Crew.

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forsmant

If only it were that easy, no one is hiring right now. I am trying to go out on my own but that is a little intimidating. I wanted to be a lead somewhere before I went on my own. The lead tried to blame it on an underling but did eventually say that he was ultimately responsible for that kind of ****. He said that he just trusted that the other guy was getting it done right. I guess I have that same problem. Assuming the guy before you did his job right has always been my weak spot. I just never learn that lesson.

naptown CR

A hard learned lesson for sure. If you want to be a lead check everything bofore insection or sign off or what ever the process is where you work. Never ever trust someone else's work with out a visual inspection. At that point you are assming that it is right and the old saying "When you assume you make an a** of you and me"

framerman

I agree with this. Always check everything. Then check it again. I am constantly looking for ****ups. Even my own.

__________________
If one advances confidently in the direction of one's dreams,
and endeavors to live the life which one has imagined,
one will meet with a success unexpected in common hours
~Henry David Thoreau

loneframer

Planning is everything. Every phase of the job gets built on paper first, whether it be verifying measurements on the plan, building backwards from the roof down on paper to pick up point loads, or just generating a cutlist for wall or roof parts. Doing it on paper up front saves doing renovations to a brand new house. One small change by a HO on the design end could produce problems that weren't caught by the architect. You sound like a responsible tradesman, don't be held back by irresponsible workers.

__________________
" It's a Jersey thing, you wouldn't understand"

Warren

When the post title is "Is the ridge out of level?"

The simple answer is Yes!

How about climb up there and stick a level or laser on it and see.

LetItBeLEED

I think that's often a result of having been pals and equals with other crew members, and then one day waking up in a leadership role. When you go from crew to lead, the whole power dynamic among your buddies changes. Its human nature to want to keep thinking of each other as equals, but the lead has to watch all the time, even while the friendly BS goes on, and the lead has to be ready to crack the whip with pals and former equals. "Lead" is short for leadership. Suddenly it's not enough any more to understand your trade. To be a top-notch lead means also understanding *people*.

LetItBeLEED

I think that's often a result of having been pals and equals with other crew members, and then one day waking up in a leadership role. When you go from crew to lead, the whole power dynamic among your buddies changes. Its human nature to want to keep thinking of each other as equals, but the lead has to watch all the time, even while the friendly BS goes on, and the lead has to be ready to crack the whip with pals and former equals. "Lead" is short for leadership. Suddenly it's not enough any more to understand your trade. To be a top-notch lead means also understanding *people*.