Replacing Lally Column

tomk15

We are bidding on a basement job and the customer wants to remove 1 of the lally columns. I am trying to dissuade him. The lally in question is in the center of a part of the basement he wants to open up for good flow.

The lally in question is 7 ft from the foundation wall and 7 ft. from the next closest lally which will be part of a closet.
Existing beam is 3 2x10's
I mentioned to him to get a structural engineer to look at it.
Any suggestions, ideas etc. Thanks.

pbranam

you can do it as long as you beef up the beam. weve done it a couple of times and sometimes it can be alot of work so think that through. you cant take it out and not beef anything up.

Tom M

Ive done many as well. You can use steel channel to bolt through the existing. This will increase spans but you will have to have someone do the calulations for any town approval. Have an architect come out, they might charge a grand but you wont have a choice.

A W Smith

Hire an engineer. You have no idea if theres a point load unless you calculate all the live and dead loads of the complete structure above and investigate where these load paths go. You cannot use rule of thumb and just bolt sh** to an existing 6 x 10 lamination. that wont work. Tell the client you will need to bring an engineer on site and take it from there. you will sleep easier knowing that 5 years in the future someone wont be killed when they decide to put a jacuzzi and pool table somewhere upstairs. Nothing that exists save for steel will carry that load 14 feet in a 4 1/2 inch by 9 1/4 inch space unless its a ranch.

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neolitic

I agree you want an engineer, not an architect.
The engineer can give you the stamp you'll want.
But I like to do my own calc's first, and explore
the slab for column pads.
(Usually one can tap around on the slab and
get a "feel" for the pad size)
If I've already got an idea of what is required
I can argue a bit if the engineer wants to
design something to support a 30 story building.

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HallisseyDesign

I can give you advice on how I have removed them in basements before. I build a 2x6 wall double top plate and double up the 2x6's every 4 foot. If you have a set of plans I can tell you better how to do it and no it is not a ton of extra work to do either. It is actually quite simple. Or not even a set of actual plans just dimensions of the outside wall and what the joist sizes are along with were the beam and lally column is in the room. Hey one other question for you, is the beam split on that lally column? What is the size of the steel beam too. Thanks

A W Smith

I think you will need quite a bit more information than that. Putting the steel in is easy. Calculating the steel beam section needed AND determining the load path for a carpentry subcontractor (see Toms other post) Is the hard part. We don't know for instance how many story's. Or If there an archway above with a stud and liner concentrated point load on the next floor over the existing column. Is there a similar point load on the second floor bedroom level. Is the roof pitched, flat, butterfly, or shed with a bearing or celestory bearing over that. You HAVE to trace the loads all the way down from the roof. He needs an engineer. This is something you cannot do on line on a message board. None of us know what he is looking at.

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HallisseyDesign

True i was meaning if he was taking out the column and replacing with 2 walls on either side column.

neolitic

Hallissey--
And we don't know whether the original footings
were adequate for the load before transferring
more load to the adjacent pads.
Your bearing walls might spread the load,
but it could be a 100year old site mixed slab 2" thick.
See what we're saying to you?

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HallisseyDesign

haha going off the 2in slab i pulled a column out of the concrete one day doing a basement. I did all the work to get the other wall in and support the weight of the house. Then the engineer who stamped the plans came and watched. He said I would never get the column out because it was suppose to be deep into the concrete. Well I hit it with a 30 pound sledge and the thing came right out and there was not even a footing below it. The engineer did some quick math with the tape he had and goes ohh my numbers were off you could of takin it out and not needed a wall because the steel i-beam was big enough to take the load! That dick! but it was funny to see his face when there was nothing down there. Just whatever you do be safe about what you do with the beam and column.

Marcus W

If you have to ask the question then cut to the chase and call an engineer or architect. When you pull permits building is going to want a stamp anyway just for liability purposes. Get the stamp remember someone always has to be held responsible just don't let it be you. Thats why the arc or the engineer take out all those student loans. Be a good guy help them pay ' em off.

Joe Carola

Why are you trying to dissuade him? There's nothing wrong with removing the column, it's a job that's done all the time. You already gave him e best advice. He has no choice but to higher an Architect or Engineer.

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Pavola

Get the engineers imput. A good relationship with a structural engineer can get you a determination in usually one phone call (if you have the right info. on hand) and then move forward or find other options if necessary.

neolitic cuts to the main issue. Beam size engineering is a moot point if the footing/soil under the next column over won't carry the additional load.

nywoodwizard

Excellent answerer AW, its amazing how many people on here ask questions we cannot accurately answerer, what amazes me even more are some of the asweres people are giving.
We need an engineer referral program set up here. I can only imagine how many unsafe homes there are in america created from forums like this.

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neolitic

No, no, no.....
That stuff was happening looong
before the internet, believe it!

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