Remote Construction - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

mics_54 · 10-17-2009, 01:44 PM

OK I am developing some plans for recreational cabins to be constructed in some remote locations in the frozen north. I would like some critique on framing method, ways to make it less expensive, less difficult to haul materials, ease of construction, etc.

The locations won't have utilities or road access so the materials have to be hauled in by boat, 4 wheeler, or sled.

The size of this model is 12x16 single room with a loft for sleeping.

**Gus Dering** · 10-17-2009, 02:03 PM

I like it, I like it A-Lot.

Where is the stove going?

Have you considered the sleeping loft on the other end behind the door? I guess the counter top is under the loft, Yes? Then the stove can be in the center of the living room near the gable.

Why no over hang at the porch? Help keep the snow off the fire wood.

Have you looked into flying the shell in with a chopper? Would be sweet to build these in doors while its cold and white outside.

If thats out, it would be nice if you could penalize some of it. Guess each site would tell that tale.

**genecarp** · 10-17-2009, 02:04 PM

Looks good, the main cabin looks laid out perfectly, if the front porch is 4ft, that will make the roof sheathing lay out, however you have an overhang in the back,,,,,so how does the roof sheathing lay out, how long are the rafters, 11 pitch? 12. G

Aframe · 10-17-2009, 02:32 PM

What are the trail conditions? Haw far away from boat access? Transporting with snow/sleds would be the smoothest but dealing with the snow once you got there would be a pain.

Unless your trails are 10' wide For a building that size I don't think paneling the walls would save that much time compared to transport logistics. Just have all your material pre-cut.

Looks like a fun project.

Andrew

mics_54 · 10-17-2009, 02:44 PM

The porch is 4 feet. I have one plan with a full loft and a ladder crawl hole. The loft does extend over the porch. It seemd to be more than the client wanted to tackle.

On the first plan I wondered about the ridge being so long. Can a ridge board in that roof be spliced ok about mid span? The roof layout wasn't great. It had some 2' drops. I suppose I could make the porch roof 6 feet to remedy that. The snow/rain here makes overhangs imperitive.
I was thinking of sheathing the walls inside and out with vertical osb and bat the joints. It's about as cheap as any panel. I did consider designing pre-built panels. It would be easy since there is no electrical or plumbing.

mics_54 · 10-17-2009, 02:49 PM

Andrew...the trail conditions vary. My intention is to make cabin plans for dwnload from my website. Most of the users would haul in the winter and construct after breakup.

Gus..I think many will heat with oil or kerosene but a small wood stove would work for me...Stack should come through the roof near the ridge if possible.

**genecarp** · 10-17-2009, 02:53 PM

[quote=mics_54;789256]The porch is 4 feet. I have one plan with a full loft and a ladder crawl hole. The loft does extend over the porch. It seemd to be more than the client wanted to tackle.

Attachment 24147

On the first plan I wondered about the ridge being so long. Can a ridge board in that roof be spliced ok about mid span?

Use that ladder to split the ridge over. G

mics_54 · 10-17-2009, 02:57 PM

Gene that's might work on some of the plans if there is a fixed ladder.

Another question that popped into my head...can I do this legally without being an architect?

UpNorth · 10-17-2009, 03:42 PM

Pretty cool plans.

Here is a little workup I did a while back. House is a 16x16 square, not including the little bump bay for a dining table, or the screened porch in front. Access to the loft is up an alternating-tread stair, which tilts up and over the foot end of the tub/shower.

Probably need a bigger boat to get the parts in.

mics_54 · 10-17-2009, 03:56 PM

Hah...I been sketchin too much...I tried to rotate your drawing with the mouse.

TempestV · 10-17-2009, 04:26 PM

so if the building is 16' long, and the porch is 4', then the ridge board would be about 20' right? I'm not forgetting anything? Good teamsters have packed stuff that long down some pretty tight trails before, using mules, so it could probably be done, but it would take some rigging skill, even with machinery instead of argumentative mules. 10' would be easy. If you have the loft in there, use a nonstructural ridge. Bring it in in 2 10' parts, and assemble it on site.

Take a serious look at panelizing it. The more work that is done near civilization, the better. Less gas in the generator, less tools that have to be packed in, everything already cut, so less extra waste to be packed in. If you can drive a 4 wheeler to the cabin site, an innovative teamster could probably pack that cabin in as panels no problem. I've seen a guy drive a team of horses pulling a wagon full of dam repair materials up a trail that would give a 4 wheeler a hard time. There is a suspension bridge over the salmon river that the 3" diameter, 100 foot long main cables were brought in on a team of mules, with a loop of cable tied to the side of each mule, and those trails are not easy trails by any means.

naptown CR · 10-17-2009, 04:41 PM

You might also look into using SIPS panels which are smaller and more easily transported (4x8)
By doing it that way the units can be easily transported and will be super insulated for use in the winter.
The downside of SIPS panels for roof construction is the structural ridge beam. If you build the roof with rafters, ceiling joists for the loft and collar ties in the cathedral area you can use conventional framing and splice the ridge at will.

mics_54 · 10-17-2009, 05:16 PM

yeah..I'm working on trying to panelize the floor.

mics_54 · 10-17-2009, 05:30 PM

Would 2x6 floor joists on 16" centers spanning 6 feet or less be ridgid enough for a floor?

naptown CR · 10-17-2009, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mics_54

Would 2x6 floor joists on 16" centers spanning 6 feet or less be ridgid enough for a floor?

Yes
And particularly because there will be no building inspector to check but 2x6 spanning 6 feet is plenty.

SPF #2 will span 9'4"
For other species go here
http://www.awc.org/calculators/span/...orizontal+Span

'

TempestV · 10-18-2009, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naptown CR

You might also look into using SIPS panels which are smaller and more easily transported (4x8)
By doing it that way the units can be easily transported and will be super insulated for use in the winter.
The downside of SIPS panels for roof construction is the structural ridge beam. If you build the roof with rafters, ceiling joists for the loft and collar ties in the cathedral area you can use conventional framing and splice the ridge at will.

You would want to make sure that the panel company uses small panels though- a standard panel usually measures 8x24, and weighs about 900# for the 6", if I remember correctly from when we weighted one this summer. That's fine if you have a crane, but on a remote site, you would want to be able to move them by hand. 4x8 would probably be manageable.
As for the roof, you could always frame the roof, and drop panels on top of that, but it might be a bit of a pain to wrestle even a 4x8 up on a roof by hand, particularly if it's an 8" or 10" panel, like we usually use for roofs.

Also, you could easily span 8' with a panel, so one rafter beam in the middle of the house is all you would need to support them. Some sort of knock down truss would be perfect, and no ridge beam would be needed. The porch roof could be done with a 4x8 panel running so that the long side runs up the pitch. The only trouble would be how to lift a roughly 200 lb panel up on the roof, and hold it from moving while you attach the strap clamps and such to pull it into place. With panels, it's best to start from the ridge and work down, so you can't set it above the last panel like you can while sheathing a roof.

naptown CR · 10-18-2009, 12:58 AM

According to the
american wood council based on a previous link.
A 2x4 spf 16"OC will span 5'11" with 40 lb live 10lb dead load and deflection of L/360
If you account for beams on the perimeter and center this is possible within the dimensions given.

bert0168 · 10-18-2009, 07:49 AM

That's an awesome idea you have there Mic. To get back on the OP question, I think Gus had it right suggesting a chopper. If you can panelize most of it I would think up there in Alaska there is no shortage of willing chopper pilots who could fly it in for you.

There are probably some companies with birds big enough to lift all the materials in one shot to the site.

Please let us know how this thing progresses, I am very interested to see how this idea pans out.

**Gus Dering** · 10-18-2009, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bert0168

That's an awesome idea you have there Mic. To get back on the OP question, I think Gus had it right suggesting a chopper. If you can panelize most of it I would think up there in Alaska there is no shortage of willing chopper pilots who could fly it in for you.

There are probably some companies with birds big enough to lift all the materials in one shot to the site.

Please let us know how this thing progresses, I am very interested to see how this idea pans out.

I envisioned you packing in the piers and getting those ready.

A couple temp beams running lengthwise cutting the joists in thirds to use as pick points.

Chopper sets the whole darn thing on your blocks. Have your mule slide the beams out from underneath and let the chopper fly them back to the shop.

There is prolly a lot to work out there but it sure would fun.

Those heli loggers are picking around #3000 I think, not sure maybe more.

**Gus Dering** · 10-18-2009, 09:55 AM

These guys are in Sutton. In Alaska miles they are petty close to you.

Their web site says they do remote construction material delivery. No weight limits listed though.
Might be fun for you to at least call and see what the deal is.

http://www.lastfrontierhelicopters.com/