framerman

I wanted to open discussion about the system of not putting sheathing on walls when you're building them and get a wall sheathing crew in to do it at a later date. I know there's many of the NJ pros here that say they have sheathing crews come by and blast it out.

I'm getting ready to start one with the Zip System and am considering this. I have some concerns but mostly because I've never done it this way.

I'm assuming you have no troubles with bracing as your building goes up but wonder if you have any precautions to bring forth that I may not see. Some people use the adjustable braces which I have no desire buying a bunch of right now.

Also, does the crew come after the 2nd floor walls are done and prior to any roof framing?

Is there any way to describe in man hours how long it takes. I would assume once you get going and get your system it will fly.

Real curious about this and tempted.

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Custom Cabinetry and Woodworking- Portland, Cape Elizabeth, Scarborough, Kennebunkport, Yarmouth, Falmouth, Cumberland, Ogunquit, Maine

Whitten Custom Carpentry

Joe Carola

As far as the system flying, it all depend on how you do your shoes and plates. I nail the shoe down for every single wall and tack the two plates in place and mark every stud, floor joists, beams, plumbing...etc above and then pull back the top plates and toenail the studs and once the walls are frame I push the bottom of the studs into the shoe and lift the walls up. Can't tell you how much faster that system will go for you if you don't do shoes/plates that way. The house will get frame alot faster because your not sheathing the walls. How much faster can't tell you that either.

You will be amazed how fast the sheathing crews are. They fly up the walls and fly ion the roof, you can't beat them, they have their own system and it works

I nail a 2x4 brace on the outside corner of the wall so that when you stand the wall up and nail the corner post in you can shoot the temp brace in plumbing the wall up. After the two outside corners are plumb I throw a temp brace in the middle of the wall between the plates where the interior perpendicular walls go. That will hold the wall in place.

As the rest of the outside walls are being framed someone is toenailing the bottoms of the studs into the shoe. Same steps for the outside walls.After all outside walls are up the interior walls get framed and the top plate overlaps the outside walls and get nailed, that locks everything into place. After every single wall is up I string the outside walls placing a piece of 5/4 on the outside corners and just wrap a mason line around the entire four walls. Takes 5 minutes.

A 16' piece of 5/4 gets nailed to the inside of all outside corners of the exterior walls. Plumb all 4 corners and nail braces. Now the outside corners are done.Now I use 12' 2x4's nailed along side the stud underneath the bottom of the first top plate maybe one or two in each room depending on what size the room is because the perpendicular wall is also used as a brace for the outside walls. These braces push or pull the outside walls straight to the mason line.

Once every wall is pushed in or out to the mason line and all braces are nailed, that's all you need. You frame the entire house rafters and all and then the sheathing crew comes in. After they are done you can remove the braces. The braces get used for packing out rakes and the 2x4's get used for collar ties and any miscellaneous framing.

Will you be facenailing the studs and then lifting up the walls?

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Joe Carola

loneframer

Framerman, now your talking my language. I never sheath walls on the floor. Aside from box nailing my walls together, I do pretty much the same as Joe. The only difference is, I like to sheath the walls before I move on to roof framing. I have done a few buildings complete with no sheathing, but I get leary with this method along the coast. Too much risk of wind working the braces. I have seen a few buildings come down because the framers sheathed the roof before the walls, so I don't recommend that method ever. If you hire in a crew, double check their nailing before they get paid and let them know what you expect in advance.
On average, two men and myself ran about 100 sheets a day on a building that was 7 rows high 56' long. Setup with pumpjacks takes a couple hours, but I leave them up for papering and window installation, as well as siding if it's in my contract.
Sheathing crews are much faster, but I'm not into sheathing 3 stories off of extension ladders, nor for $5 a sheet. They probably won't make much effort to straighten bowed studs either.

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tomstruble

it seems like there is some detail that has to be paid as far as the zip tape system goes,not rocket science but it needs to be installed and rolled correctly for it to do its job. jmo

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Tom

loneframer

I highly recommend "rolling it in" after application. Just to get good consistant contact with the sheathing. I used a 4" laminate roller.

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"Walking the fine line between production and perfection"

tomstruble

they actually have a tape dispenser with a built in roller,also a big j roller with a specially textured head

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Tom

loneframer

Guess I should've done my homework on that one.

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"Walking the fine line between production and perfection"

TimelessQuality

sounds like Joe's got it..

I like a 12 or 16 2x diagonal brace shoved up into the top of the outside corners(inside). Nailed into both the top and bottom plates, makes the corners solid till sheathing..

Then you can nail any wonky studs to the brace to hold them straight till sheathed.

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tomstruble

was at a rough framing Road show today Huber and advantec were sponsors

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Tom

Timuhler

After using it and probably using it again and meeting the rep yesterday here are a few things I've learned

• The tape needs 10lbs of pressure to "activate".
• Don't use the gun and just roll down the seam, its hard to keep is straight. Stick it on the wall good for about 1', and then stretch it out in 4' increments

and then stick it on the wall. Much easier to keep it straight.

• Use a J-Roller, preferably Huber's.

That's it.

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www.pioneerbuildersonline.com

ClemS

it's faster.

i rarely do it for several reasons.

one, just like loneframer i like to sheath walls before the roof goes on. partly because the box doesn't move so much, partly because i like the ply to go all the way up to the top of plate and be nailed there.

two, sheathing crews are pretty rough. most of my work gets scrutinized, and i don't like people saying i do shoddy work. i'll do shoddy work if it isn't going to be scrutinized though

loneframer

Both great points. Even with the hardware required now, I still like the continuity of the sheathing tying in all wall and floor assemblies. As far as the structure moving, a house on pilings moves quite a bit by design. Going up an additional 2 floors with merely bracing on the walls is quite an eye opener the first time someone gives the building a good shake. Sheathing the walls before framing the roof to stiffen the structure just makes good sense in this scenario.

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"Walking the fine line between production and perfection"

tomstruble

[quote=ClemS;805480]go all the way up to the top of plate and be nailed there


thats fire blocking code here,i had an inspector make me put in 4''rips of ply before i could do the soffit
i was just the sider

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Tom

knucklehead

What is this sheeting crew you speak of? Is it a bunch of Mexicans?

ClemS

[quote=tomstruble;805510]don't know about fire blocking, but it's definitely better for shear. some guys who use sheathers will run a 2' ribbon around the top of the box and let the sheather go up to it (tried it, and doesn't always come out looking too crisp)

ClemS

could be white guys. just guys who do sheathing. lots minority groups do it.

knucklehead

How hard is it to put sheeting on a wall when it is laying on the deck?

tomstruble

inspector ''explained'' to me a fire in the wall could pass the gap in the sheathing and then to the roof
i didn't frame it but i did what he asked to keep my job moving
cutting the plumb cut on the birdsmouth back 1/2'' on a hundred or so
rafters was fun

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Tom

ClemS

different way of framing. nobody does that around here. it's EASIER for a framer to frame without having to sheathe. We also don't have many 5 acre lots where you can run your lull around a house with needed materials all day.
framing crews around here are also pretty slim, 2-3 guys.

part of the reason why all this hurricane strapping non-sense is so rampant now is because people don't lap the box with their sheathing.

ClemS

in some situations i will fly the birdsmouth out 3/4" and space my rafters and sheathe after the roof is on. mostly on roof raises though, because the quicker your ridge is up, the better the tarp job at the end of the day.