To Nail Banger, Help

Jeremy England

I read your post earlier seeking framing questions. I have one

I have a house we are building that the plans call for a 12/12 side to side and 9/12 front to back with 12" tails.

I made two jigs, one for each and then matched the seat cuts together. On the 12/12 I'm left with about 2 1/4" for fascia. I don't think the difference will come into play until you get to the corners of this house then on the front you will have standard 6" fascia but on the sides I'm at a loss.

What do you think, anyone?

Thanks

Glasshousebltr

Build up the side to side walls until the facia meets. I'm assuming this is a hip roof your talking.

Bob

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Bob

Jeremy England

Yes this is a hip roof, that is a pretty good idea. I'll check that out

Joe Carola

What are your dimensions and what size ridge do you have because there's a lot of information you will need to know if you want equal overhangs. Your hip will be offset on the corner towards the steep pitch side. Your hip will have a different plumbcut. Not like when you hold your hip on what ever pitch you have on 17 for a regular 45° hip with the same pitches.

The run for the steeper pitch is shorter. The hip runs at 53.13° on the 9/12 side and 36.87° on the 10/12 side. All the cheek cuts on the jack rafters will have to have those angles and the cheek cuts on the top and bottom of the hip plumbcuts will have to have those angle also.

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Joe Carola

nailbanger138

First, good job on the math joe carola. I checked (sorry) to make sure. you are right on for the hip on flat. For Jeremy: to make your facia lineup you have to adapt your overhangs(front/side) to make them equali in level. Also--Joe Carola, cheek cuts are not the same as the hip on flat. Look at your framing square, usually there is a category for jack side cuts. If you check it won't match the hip angle. You have to take the hip angle as it sits, not flat like on paper, but in
three dimensions. No disrespect, it took me forever to get this but when you see it you obviously see the math to do it. If you want some real fun try and figure the angles for valley blocks on paper.

K2

It's been a while for me but I think the overhangs will have to change to keep the facia line the same and like Bob said up or down on the seat cuts.> It was alot easier when everone thought a hip had to be 45 degrees.

Joe Carola

No disrespect taken at all.What I was telling Jeremy was that the hip runs at 53.13° on the 9/12 side and 36.87° on the 10/12 side.hip in plan view (flat). 53.13° is what you set your saw at to make the cut for your jack rafter on the 9/12 side and 36.87° is what you set your saw at on the 12/12 side. They have to be set at the angle the hip runs at. It just won’t read at those angles when the cut is done on the edge of the jack.

It's the same for a regular hip that runs at 45° in plan view (flat), you always set your saw at 45° to cut the jack rafters and hip cheek cuts no matter what pitch it is. If you just mark a square line and cut it at 45°, when you put your speedsquare on the edge of that board it will be 45° or it will read 12/12 on your framing square. Now if you make a plumbcut for any pitch and cut threw that line at 45° and then put your speedsquare or framing square on the edge of that board it will not read 45°, it will have that side cut angle or what the side cut number it tells you to set your framing square at.

In 22 years of framing I've never once used the side cut on the framing square because you don't need it since we have circular saws. That was only used when you didn't have a circular saw and you had to use hand saws because that's the angle you would have to make to cut the jack rafters at. All those side cut numbers are the result of when you make your cuts with the circular saw. Back then without the circular saw it was hard to get those angles and you had to start from the top edge of the jack to make your cut with the handsaw.

If he wants 12" equal overhangs and level soffits, all he has to do is offset the hip from the corner 4" towards the steep side and raise the plate 3". If he doesn't want to offset the hip and keep it on the corner, he will have a 9" overhang on the 12/12 side will level soffits and keep the same plate height and make the same HAP cut (Plumbcut "Height Above Plate" after seatcut) as the 9/12 side HAP cut.

The hip plumbcut angle to mark with a speedsquare at the top and at the birdsmouth would be 30.96° (31°) or just set the framing square at 7-3/16"/12.

These "Bastard Hips" as most call them were always a challenge way back when I first started using strings and bevel squares but now they're a lot easier by drawing them in plan view on the deck or from the corner of a sheet of plywood. I use a Construction Master Calculator with Trig which is a great tool but you have to know what to put in them it makes this whole process a lot easier.

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Joe Carola

nailbanger138

joe, You are totally right on the circular saw point. also do the new constructionmasters have a scientific trig functio? I carry an old CM4, and a normal scientific calc for the tough stuff. On the whole i say your solution is right on provided the building isn't framed with the plates level already. good job.

Joe Carola

Even if the plate heights are the same size provide it's not cathedral. I always install my ceiling joists first and then put blocks in between the ceiling joists on the steep pitched side to make up the difference.

I have the "Construction Master Pro Trig Plus 111" (Model 4075)


I also have "Construction Master Pro Trig" (Model 4080). This one has a few more features like Octagons and Angles for Crown Molding. For some reason this one isn't on their website but I found it here at Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...lance&n=228013


I also have "Construction Master Pro DT with Trig" (Model 44065). Which is a desktop version with paper and printer and has all the tig functions the other two have.

Here's the website for all these calculators from Calculated Industries.

http://www.calculated.com/productcar...2&Submit.x=29&

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Joe Carola

Jeremy England

Thanks for the responses, I only get online at the library because i'm in temp housing. so i may be slow, what I'm doing is printing this thread and taking it to the jobsite with me. I'll let you know how it all turns out.

nailbanger138

Joe

I agree again with the method. But in CA if you stacked blocks and attatched rafters on top you have to call the engineer. Unless this is per plan. you and i know that a few plates are nothing, but mr. inspector doesnt. if he did he would be building instead of looking. I have to say I'm impressed with your math. In all the time I've been doing this I've always been
"the math guy" to co workers. Its nice to see another carpenter using it. I've actually been fired for using a calc. instead of a string or square.