Knife Plates

 
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Old 01-30-2011, 10:11 AM   #1
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Knife Plates


If this job ever does start, I need to figure out how to cut 12" to 16" x 3/8" knife plates into the hip and valley rafters.

All of these slotting machines are too short.
http://www.timberwolftools.com/tools...mortisers.html

Any ideas?

Sim
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Old 01-30-2011, 10:46 AM   #2
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Re: Knife Plates


I used this for cutting SIPs. I don't know it it has the accuracy you need.

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Old 01-30-2011, 11:12 AM   #3
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Re: Knife Plates


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Latone View Post
I used this for cutting SIPs. I don't know it it has the accuracy you need.
These knife plates need to be plunge cut. I had a Prazi beam cutter and thru it away about 10 years ago. Might have to look into the Prazi beam cutter again. I wonder if you can buy a different bar and use a longer chain?

Thanks,
Sim
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Old 01-30-2011, 01:28 PM   #4
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Re: Knife Plates


just use a chain saw
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Old 01-30-2011, 01:28 PM   #5
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Re: Knife Plates


You can do those with a chain saw if you have a 3/8" chain. It takes a couple guys to do it and It's kinda cowboy, I don't have pictures nor can I sketch up one for you so try to visualize this;

Rip and or plane down some stock to a thickness of half of your roof member's thickness minus 3/16". Make it as wide as you can, limited by the length of your bar. The length of your bar minus the depth of cut you need would be ideal. 4 feet in length is plenty long.

Near one end set the bar down flat on top of the stock with the chain running to remove the stock so the chain spins freely with the bar resting on the board.

Now bolt the bar to the stock. 1/4" carriage bolts should be fine in a nice wide pattern.

Add a couple handles to the long section of board extending past the bar. You or your helper will use these to guide the bar into the cut.

Set your self up with a nice flat area. Brace your roof member in place. Slide the saw along the deck with one guy on the saw and the other on the fixture's handles.

You get the idea. It's a little renegade but it can be done.
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Old 01-30-2011, 02:11 PM   #6
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Re: Knife Plates


I havnt seen that Prazi tool before, but I like it alot. It looks so slick.
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Old 01-30-2011, 02:19 PM   #7
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Re: Knife Plates


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gus Dering View Post
You can do those with a chain saw if you have a 3/8" chain. It takes a couple guys to do it and It's kinda cowboy, I don't have pictures nor can I sketch up one for you so try to visualize this;

Rip and or plane down some stock to a thickness of half of your roof member's thickness minus 3/16". Make it as wide as you can, limited by the length of your bar. The length of your bar minus the depth of cut you need would be ideal. 4 feet in length is plenty long.

Near one end set the bar down flat on top of the stock with the chain running to remove the stock so the chain spins freely with the bar resting on the board.

Now bolt the bar to the stock. 1/4" carriage bolts should be fine in a nice wide pattern.

Add a couple handles to the long section of board extending past the bar. You or your helper will use these to guide the bar into the cut.

Set your self up with a nice flat area. Brace your roof member in place. Slide the saw along the deck with one guy on the saw and the other on the fixture's handles.

You get the idea. It's a little renegade but it can be done.
Gus, I had to read your post twice before I could visualize it.But now that I can visualize the mock up I think it'll work.

Now, I just need to find a 3/8" chain and a 1/2" chain for the other 1/2" knife plates. With a 16" deep knife plate slot, I'll need to buy another chain saw that could handle the 16" + stock width where the chain saw attachs to it with bolts.

Thanks,
Sim
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Old 01-30-2011, 02:52 PM   #8
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Re: Knife Plates


Sim talk to Timberwolf the maffel mortice machine LS 103 EC can be fitted with an attachment,plus blade and chain SG230,SG400 or SG500.The numbers relate to the depth of cut and can be cut from 7m/m to 21m/m wide.Tell him it`s on page114 of maffel`s catalogue but if it`s just for a couple of cuts it maybe way to expensive.
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Old 01-30-2011, 04:22 PM   #9
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Re: Knife Plates


Hey Sim I can help you on this one.

Ive done an absolute ton of knife plating. Find a carving bar and chain for your chain saw you also need a different driver for the smaller blade. You can find them on line to, I dont know where Ive seen them though. They have a funny looking end on them. Ive never been able to find a thicker chain they all cut around 5/16 or so. I always free hand them and work the saw to get the cut wide enough. I was told by an engineer that knife plates are desighned to hold by the bolts through the lumber rather than the plates fitting tight. Same principle as brackets on the outside. Your hole have to be perfect which in timber 8 in and wider is a bear. Theres a company out of austria that makes a really cool drill press type attachment for drilling with long bits through thick material.

Just found this this this is a different brand than mine but its a 14 in. You have to run a 1/4 in pitch chain with these but there awsome for plunging. Ive tried it both ways and with out the carving bar its hard to control and really dangerous as far as kickback and kick out.

That jig would be cool if you could move it side to side to give you your width.
Here a bar kit.http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=230533726054

These where all knife plated with 3/8 thick steel the peak had 10 in long legs 4 in wide and the center leg was 8 in down 4 in wide. They were a pain in the butt to get together. We didnt use bolts either we used 3/4"X 5" pieces of steel rod to hold them together so there were no exposed bolts.

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Last edited by Chris@Sunrise; 01-30-2011 at 06:17 PM.
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Old 01-30-2011, 05:43 PM   #10
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Re: Knife Plates


Quote:
Originally Posted by ubenhad4 View Post
Hey Sim I can help you on this one.

Ive done an absolute ton of knife plating. Find a carving bar and chain for your chain saw you also need a different driver for the smaller blade. You can find them on line to, I dont know where Ive seen them though. They have a funny looking end on them. Ive never been able to find a thicker chain they all cut around 5/16 or so. I always free hand them and work the saw to get the cut wide enough. I was told by an engineer that knife plates are desighned to hold by the bolts through the lumber rather than the plates fitting tight. Same principle as brackets on the outside. Your hole have to be perfect which in timber 8 in and wider is a bear. Theres a company out of austria that makes a really cool drill press type attachment for drilling with long bits through thick material.

Just found this this this is a different brand than mine but its a 14 in. You have to run a 1/4 in pitch chain with these but there awsome for plunging. Ive tried it both ways and with out the carving bar its hard to control and really dangerous as far as kickback and kick out.

That jig would be cool if you could move it side to side to give you your width.
Here a bar kit.http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=230533726054

These where all knife plated with 3/8 thick steel the peak had 10 in long legs 4 in wide and the center leg was 8 in down 4 in wide. They were a pain in the butt to get together. We didnt use bolt either we used 3/4 pieces of steel to hold them together so there were no exposed bolts.

Chris
Chris, thanks for the info. We hardly ever use our 15 year old chain saw. So I'm looking to buy a new STIHL chain saw. There are 30 of these knife plates on this roof and I've allowed a couple thousands dollars in the budget for a new chain saw. What would be the best STIHL chain saw for cutting these knife plates with a carving bar?

Also, I'm not following your comment:

We didnt use bolt either we used 3/4 pieces of steel to hold them together so there were no exposed bolts.

I don't see any extra steel in the pictures of your exposed beam trusses.



Sim
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Old 01-30-2011, 06:16 PM   #11
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Re: Knife Plates


I should have said 3/4 in round bar instead of bolts. There epoxied in.
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Old 01-30-2011, 06:30 PM   #12
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Re: Knife Plates


As far as saws go Im a husky guy never had a problem with any husky product. I have a rancher 55 but need to get a bigger one for using with my head cutter. The 55 works great with the carving bar though its light and small. You dont want to handle a beast when knife plating. I used to use electric chain saws knife plating because you can handle them so much easier. Once I found the carving bar, adios electrics.
576 xp will be my next saw.
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Old 02-11-2011, 11:25 PM   #13
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Re: Knife Plates


Baileys is the place if you are looking for chainsaw stuff. Won't let me post a link. Google Baileys Logging Supply


Knife plates are easier for me with a smaller CC saw that I can control the kick back on something in the 40cc range. Never tried a carving bar before but I bet it helps. Gas on and plunge it ... might help to practice once or twice. Watch that kick back and BEEEE CAREFUL.
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Old 04-11-2011, 11:31 PM   #14
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Re: Knife Plates


Get a pico chain 30$ and free hand it. Draw a centerline, start cut at top of beam if you are allowed to and stop when you get to bottom of knife. If you have to plunge then start at top of knife with the bottom corner of the bar, once you have the tip in think like you are having sex and push hard. The key is to keep a slight angle so top of chain does not catch. After you have your first pass gently rub bar at high rpm on the sides to get the proper width. Take your time. It is difficult to learn but once you get a feel for it it's like riding a bike. And you will always have this skill. With practice it only takes about 2 minutes to do this. I have literally done probably about a thousand of these. Next time I do I will post a video.
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Old 07-26-2014, 09:14 AM   #15
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Re: Knife Plates


California Knife Plate Slotter - Mortiser for 6x6 post.

Okie Knife Plate Slotter - Mortiser for the 5 1/2" x 9" GluLam Beams.
(AKA Chainsaw on a Stick)

http://sbebuilders.blogspot.com/2014...r-framing.html

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Old 07-26-2014, 04:26 PM   #16
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Re: Knife Plates


The house I'm on now has four post w/ knife plates, first time I've ever seen that and now here is all kinds of info. I love it!

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