Installing A Ceiling Ladder?

jerry1967

I would like to install a ceiling ladder where I have a opening in my ceiling. The ladder fits in perfect where I want it.
The ladder will run parrell to the joist The rough opening is 22 1/2 by 54. The problem I have is that there is a joist support board that runs perpendicular to the opening, right in the middle of where the ladder will fit. Can I cut the joist support board where it goes over the opening and still be save. Will the rest of the joist support board work in the rest of the ceiling or by cutting it will the make the ceiling weak?

joasis

Before anyone will answer you, more info is needed and a picture would really help. I for one, do not know what a joist support board is? You have a 2X running along that the cripples to the rafters are attached to? Or is this a structural beam under the ceiling joists? See what I mean?

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jerry1967

the joist support board runs perpendicular to the joist, it is nailed to evey joist in the attic. I would like to cut out the part that goes over the opening for the attic ladder which is in the middle of the support board.Go the the web site below and then go to page 7 section 1.6 figure 9 and see the joist support boards. The only difference is my support board runs right over the opening. Can i cut it on both sides and not lose any support?

please go to this web site and go to page 7 section 1.6 figure 9
http://www.wernerladder.com/catalog/...ic%20ladder%22

joasis

And I must be dumb, but what exactly is this "joist support board" supporting? What is the size of it? Is it nailed to the top of all the ceiling joists it crosses? if so, why? is there anything else attached to it? Was it placed diring constructiont o keep stuff pointed the right way while others things were done, and then left up there for a roost? (actually this is my guess).

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VitoFromNJ

I think what Jerry is describing is called a strongback. I am not certain what it is that a strongback does structurally, but I think it provides some kind of 'horizontal' bearing, though I dont see how it could.

Glasshousebltr

We call a sistered 2x4 on the base of a stair stringer a strong-back. I think what the gentleman's referring to is the 2X4 support on top of the ceiling joists, this we refer to as a rat runner, we install them during framing to true the ceiling joists for drywall, lath etc. If I'm correct, the rat runner can be cut anywhere along it's span as long as finish ceiling is installed.

A pic would help.

Bob

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Bob

joasis

Stringer is the term here Bob, and that is what I was guessing it is....but pics would be nice...what if it were a header between 2 walls that supported a valley jack? Cutting through it myght not be good.

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jerry1967

it is a one by four that lays flat--after looking futher it lays on top of the joist where the joist are connected by "connecting braces".It is nailed to all the ceiling joist it crosses and lays over the connecting braces of the joist.(where one joist ends and another start). I hope glasshousebltr and joasis are right and it was just installed for constructions reasons and was left up there. it is not a header between two walls. i will try and get a picture up. glasshouseblr there is a picture on your websit that looks like my construction but my piece of wood is laying on top of the joist where you have the wood under the joist where the connecting braces are. what is the purpose of the long piece of wood and could it be cut between two joist

joasis

If it is a 1 x 4 laying flat to the ceiling joists, you are good to go. Cut it through and disregard it, all it was there for is spacing the joists dusing construction.

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jerry1967

thank you very much!!

skymaster

1 x 4 on the flat? Oh Yeah just ferget that sucker It probably was used as a spacer or somw other TEMPORARY use. chop it no problems :}:}:}:} Totally agree with previous post to just disregard it.
JackM

VitoFromNJ

One thing I dont understand, is, how did this 22.5X54 RO get there.

joasis

The RO needed for an attic stair Vito is 22-1/2" X 54"....the opening isn't there yet, but will be...it would be a head banger to have a stringer across the opening...kinda be awkward carrying an arm load of crap up and down once a year (cleaning out the attic) and tripping over the stringer....but wait!....if you leave the stringer there, and use the stair, it may make America's Funniest Home Videos!

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thom

We call them catwalks here. Some of the truss engineering requires it be in place.

The more significant issue is using the attic for storage. This can be a real problem if the joists were not engineered for a storage load. Generally they are engineered to carry the weight of sheetrock only. The next issue is insulation crush. You will lose "R" value if you crush it.

I frame with engineered trusses. These cannot be used to support a storage load.

jerry1967

There is no insulation factor because it is over a garage.

VitoFromNJ

Yea, Joasis, yea, I get the picture, especially if its inhanced by some fortified holiday cider or eggnog!!

Seriously. there is something called a strongback that is meant to tighten up the gable end. 'I think'.

Anyway, I could talk about something I do know.

There are two ways to install these attic steps. The way its described in the directions, and the other way.

The directions say to set up temp supports so that the 3/4 boxed jamb is flush with the sheetrock. My words, not theirs.

Or,

You could set up temp supports so that the actual door is flush with the SR.

If you follow the directions, you wont need a 1/4 inch pack out, but your margin for error and the need for a helper increases.

If you set up temp suppports so that the actual luann door is flush with the rock, then it becomes a much more safer, one man job. Then you just gotta pack out the jamb a 1/4 inch

TimNJ

Vito, I'm with you too on the term "strongback". Must be a "Jersey" definition. Old timers told me it was to hold the ceiling joists in place so that you didn't end up with a 16"OC bowing out to maybe 17" or down to 15" and also as wet lumber dried it helped keep them from twisting and causing nail pops in the rock ceiling below. Now in the days of trusses that board would help stabilize the trusses as you set them so you don't end up with them falling over like a stack of dominoes while you are setting them and keep your 24"OC.

jerry1967

Then you just gotta pack out the jamb a 1/4 inch?-- ok what is meant by this?

VitoFromNJ

to bring the surface of the actual door's frame/jamb flush with the surface of the finished ceiling, so that inner side of the trim sits on a flush an even plane as the outer side.

skymaster

Jerry: This is how we did them when we were trimming houses; First get a helper, no BS ya need one.
take 2 pcs of 1x4 wide enuf to span that opening and nail or screw em into the framing on the sides of the hole BUT; let the edges extend into the opening enuf to form ledger strips so you can rest the frame of the stairs on them; this makes the frame flush with the rock.
IN this Order: pull stairs into attic; nail temps in place, one man stays on floor, 2nd in attic; lower steps into hole, guy on floor centers it, 2nd guy still in attic nails it in place at 4 corners, guy on floor opens and lowers stars, attic guy with other help now fully nails it off, leaves ( optional :}:} ) the attic, trim it and done about an hr max