Hips And Valleys

Originally Posted by Birch

This is one of the nuances of Bastard Hip framing I will disagree with. If an irregular hip roof is split 8/10 (or 10/8) then you should not split the Hip Rafter by a ratio different than the proportions of the split pitches. A one to one (equal) split is for regular pitched roofs only. If you split an irregular Hip equally then you must back it, or at least back off the steep side where the shoulder stands proud of the plane, or HAP.

You cannot split an unbacked hip equally. Altering the other mechanics of the bastard roof to “work things out” is awkward to say the least. To change HAPs at the adjacent plate lines (pitches) will affect the run of the steeper pitch and the length of the ridge. (Over thought and unnecessarily complicated, IMHO.)




When you back off the proud shoulder of a bastard hip to bring it back into plane you are also effectively changing the flat area of the Hip back to be proportionately split. If you start out proportionately split, you don’t have to correct the fit with an additional backing rip cut.

Originally Posted by cbfx3

As I said I've never used the "8x10" method... The concept of the "hip split" has caused many a framer to remove hair from his head! If I read your response correctly you are pointing out that the intersection of the 2 pitches is not in the center of the hip. I end up where you do but am not as good at explaining it. I need to investigate how you guys are posting these cool drawings so I can post some of my stuff. Truthfully there is only one way to do it.... the right way

Originally Posted by Birch

Oh, and that’s’ the right way to do it, IMO. So simple…..

Originally Posted by cbfx3

It is alot easier to do right than it is to get it almost right! Crazy thing is some framers NEVER get it when it comes to bastards. Heck Ive seen some guys make a living that cant even actually figure a common rafter

Originally Posted by Birch

Originally Posted by Gus Dering

Maybe you worked for the same framer I did.

I remember him saying "If it looks good it is good. Put the flippin level back in the truck"

Originally Posted by framerman

Absolutely agree, especially with adapting. I figured I may have been vague and debated whether to CAD it out and post it to give some visuals, but being in the morning and busy, I didn't have time. I may do it in a few minutes so I don't confuse everyone.

While the common description is to say to "drop the hip", my procedure is essentially the same, but my previous explanation may be confusing. The "by the book" method is what I was taught as the "theoretical", the calculations and such. The dropping of the hip is essentially moving your theoretical measurement half the distance of your hip member. This would make the face of the hip line up with your vertical measuring plane, thus when you mark and lay out your hip, the HAP is the same as the commons.

It's a different method with the same results.

The reason I do it this way is so I can have someone on the roof, that may not be as talented as I am, installing the hips in the correct place. My method of laying out the hip places a visual plumb line where the face of the plate is. All they need to do is match the vertical line with the face of the plate.

The method of dropping the hip usually indicates that you are laying out where the corner point of the house is on your hip and dropping the HAP to plane the hips in with the commons. This gives you a vertical layout line for the theoretical and you would have to do either 1) make a few more layout lines so the tard on the roof knows where to put the hip, or 2) assume the tard can figure out where that point is under the hip.

I chose my method because it eliminates a few unnecessary steps in laying out a hip and to try to eliminate the confusion for the guys on the roof. Two lines laid out on a hip and the guys are asking "which line?"

Originally Posted by cbfx3

It is alot easier to do right than it is to get it almost right! Crazy thing is some framers NEVER get it when it comes to bastards. Heck Ive seen some guys make a living that cant even actually figure a common rafter

Originally Posted by ash

can anyone explain how mark and cut the middle stringer on 90 degree steps???

Originally Posted by ash

I meant that when you look at the steps in plan form, they make a 90 degree angle....so all the sringers are the same except the one for the 90 degree turn. These are for a deck, not a staircase. Thanks for your help!

Originally Posted by neolitic

Hello.
Please read this....
http://www.contractortalk.com/f11/ju...portant-60787/

Originally Posted by Birch

This is one of the nuances of Bastard Hip framing I will disagree with. If an irregular hip roof is split 8/10 (or 10/8) then you should not split the Hip Rafter by a ratio different than the proportions of the split pitches. A one to one (equal) split is for regular pitched roofs only. If you split an irregular Hip equally then you must back it, or at least back off the steep side where the shoulder stands proud of the plane, or HAP.

You cannot split an unbacked hip equally. Altering the other mechanics of the bastard roof to “work things out” is awkward to say the least. To change HAPs at the adjacent plate lines (pitches) will affect the run of the steeper pitch and the length of the ridge. (Over thought and unnecessarily complicated, IMHO.)

Originally Posted by framerman

Second, it is your career, not a job. Even better is that is it your passion, or your destiny.