Framing Header Questions

MWHITLEY

I have a friend that had a wall taken out of his house to open up between his dining room and family room by a "guy" and turns out its a load bearing wall and he wants me to fix it ? The problem i have is finding out what size header i would need to install and he has room to install it under the ceiling.
It is a single story home with a shake roof if that helps and it is a 12 foot span and i was thinking it is 1 inch thickness for every foot of span (12 feet so its a 12'' header ? and its 2x4 walls so a 4''x12'' header ? also can i use a smaller glulam beam as i understand they are stronger so maybe i could use a smaller header than 12 inch ? i have pics of the attic if that would help? also i am in calif where there is no snow load ?

KentWhitten

your local lumber yard should be able to handle that for you. If not, you will need an engineer to tell you.

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MWHITLEY

No luck at the lumber yard they said it was a insurance issue ? I dont think its all that big of deal because the the old top plate is the only thing holding it up now with no support and its only bowed down less than a half inch ? i just dont want him to have any problems. the wall is interior portion where they removed it and is an exterior wall so the load is still supported by it on one end and the kitchen wall on the other end.

thom

You aren't giving us enough information. That's a clue that you don't understand what you are doing (that plus the 1" per foot thing). You must first determine the load (plf) the beam will carry, both live and dead. Then you can size the beam.

BUT WAIT, there's more here. You've got to insure that you are properly supporting the header, so you've got to know the total load imposed on each support. Then you can size the cripples and the attachments.

BUT WAIT, there's more. You've got to make sure the floor can support the loads imposed by the cripples that are carrying the weight from the headder that's carrying the weight of the ceiling joists and maybe the weight of some of the roof.....

Doing this over the internet just doesn't work.

MWHITLEY

Then how do you go about determining the load ? and what other info do you need ? i was going to go a little over kill to make sure all will be well so would doubling up the trimmers help ?

Patrick

Check your states building code, They give out copies when you apply for your license

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Originally Posted by Celtic
Like I said...I'm sure you are very good at what you do ~ whatever that is and where ever it happens.

MWHITLEY

Thank You for all your help

thom

You can calculate the loads. I can't see all the issues over the internet so I can't calculate them. I can't see how the joists are installed and supported. I can't tell their centers. I can't tell their lengths on each side of the header location. I cant see if their were roof supports on tho old wall. I can't see if there are other imposed loads in addition to the ceiling joists. Without all these things, it just can't be done. It really does take a guy who knows what he is doing actually looking at the situation.

Because you don't know, there may be things that don't appear to you to be relevant when they really are. In my career I've done a lot of this but always after looking at the location and existing structure. If I tried to list everything, I'm sure I would miss something.

Patrick

Like the hot tub in the upstairs bathroom over the old wall?

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Originally Posted by Celtic
Like I said...I'm sure you are very good at what you do ~ whatever that is and where ever it happens.

neolitic

Or that the load that was spread out over 12'
will now be transfered to two 3½"X3" points
on ? ¾" ? plywood?
OOPS!
Thom kinda covered that.

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(Sorry....it seems there really are dumb questions)

MWHITLEY

Sorry I had to look at my original posting ? I was just asking for help with finding the correct header size NOT all the resons you cant help! But thanks again!

skyhook

Moving the (e) load which was spread out over 12' to (2) point loads under your (n) posts will need pad footings. I usually put the (n) header above the ceiling for a clean continuous look. Best to employ a Structural Engineer for the calculations and stamp. A word to the HO, Do it right or do it over.

As previously stated by others.

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KentWhitten

Think of it this way. Say I replied and said

"you know what? a couple 2x8's nailed together, that's plenty"

A. are you going to actually believe me and put in something you have no idea if it REALLY is big enough?
B. what happens if it fails and falls on someone and kills them because it wasn't sized properly?

you need an engineer for your SPECIFIC situation.

If the lumber yard won't do it because of liability, then what makes you think we're going to do it?

Get a license, get a permit, and get an engineer before you hurt someone.

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If you correct your mind, the rest of your life will fall into place ~Lao Tzu

Custom Cabinetry - Portland, Cape Elizabeth, Scarborough, Kennebunkport, Yarmouth, Falmouth, Cumberland, Ogunquit, Maine

Salmon Falls Cabinetry

MWHITLEY

Thank you Sky hook for your positive information! The support below was my next question

skyhook

That is common practice, plus 1 (4x14) but if you look at a 16' garage door header, they are usually smaller than 4x16 if it only carries 1 story. An Engineer might size it smaller, thereby helping to offset the cost of the stamp., considering a smaller beam would be easier to work with in the tight quarters of an finished structure.

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MWHITLEY

Thank You very much for your help ! one more question will 4x4 be enough for the trimmers ?

Tom F.

Maybe you don't need an engineer. Maybe you just need to hook up with the good framer whose quality work you cover up in your trade of Drywall. I credit you for wanting to help your buddy, but you really need to get a person experienced in framing/structural changes to lay eyes on the project. With luck, they can give you good advice to get the job going.

skyhook

You could use 4x4s, twisting is a possibility, I'd go with Construction grade (green) 2x4 king studs end nailed into the header at each end and at least (3) 2x4s crowned opposite, straightened and nailed together or, california posts for trimmers, properly anchored.

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Tin Cup

i'd ask the painter.... unless he was the guy that took the wall out !


Tin Cup

skyhook

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