Framing 2 Story Great Room Wall

 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-29-2009, 07:52 PM   #1
Registered User
 
dbryant11's Avatar
 
Trade: Custom Home Builder
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 19
Rewards Points: 10
Question

Framing 2 Story Great Room Wall


Good day guys. Quick question looking for some opinions. I'm working with an architect, and trust him, but wanted some real world "I've done that" opinions before I see his drawings. I'm used to all brick exteriors, but the price point of a new home I'm getting ready to GC is going to have brick wrap and siding above. I can picture a brick first floor, topped with a sided 2nd floor separated by, well, the floor, but can't get it in my head how the 2 story back wall of the great room will get framed. Its a generic 2 story great room, wall of windows, 18 foot tall, etc. I'm used to full length 2x running up the full length, but since this is half brick and half siding, will it just be 2x8's sitting on 2x6's for example? Or has anyone actually used a full length 2x8 and then cut half of it off, half way up to accommodate the brick? Just trying to visualize the strongest wall that will allow brick half way, and then offset for siding above..... Thanks in advance for helping me see what I'm sure is simple, I just can't visualize.......
dbryant11 is offline  

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

   
 

Old 11-29-2009, 09:01 PM   #2
The Duke
 
Kent Whitten's Avatar
 
Trade: Cabinet Maker
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Portland, Maine
Posts: 14,745
Rewards Points: 2,036

Re: Framing 2 Story Great Room Wall


Quote:
Originally Posted by dbryant11 View Post
Or has anyone actually used a full length 2x8 and then cut half of it off, half way up to accommodate the brick?
I hope I am not misunderstanding you there. Just use a 2x6 or 2x8, whatever the drawings say to use, full length. Usually that height, 2x6's are 12" oc. Do not cut anything halfway up.

Are you trying to get the siding face flush with the brick? I've never seen that. There's a cap on the brick when it stops, flashing on top, then siding sets back a few inches.

__________________
If you correct your mind, the rest of your life will fall into place ~Lao Tzu

SalmonFallsCabinetry.com

Salmon Falls Cabinetry on Facebook
Kent Whitten is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Kent Whitten For This Useful Post:
Winchester (11-30-2009)
Old 11-29-2009, 09:07 PM   #3
Pro
 
house bldr's Avatar
 
Trade: general contractor
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: kansas
Posts: 272
Rewards Points: 250

Re: Framing 2 Story Great Room Wall


I would do it the way Framerman says! Breaking a wall halfway up creates a hinge joint weakening the wall
house bldr is offline  
Old 11-29-2009, 09:13 PM   #4
Pro
 
kpatrix's Avatar
 
Trade: Framer
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 199
Rewards Points: 150

Re: Framing 2 Story Great Room Wall


Why not just make the great room wall brick all the way up ? If you do it half and half the upper and lower windows will have different depths which will look off from the inside.

If I had to do it, I would frame and sheathe the wall as if there would be brick all the way up, then build and cleat a pack out wall on top and stand it as a unit. A solid brick wall veneer would be best practice, though.
kpatrix is offline  
Old 11-29-2009, 09:25 PM   #5
Geometrist
 
Warren's Avatar
 
Trade: framing/remodeling
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 6,680
Rewards Points: 1,959

Re: Framing 2 Story Great Room Wall


Sometimes architects draw some details that are just not practical. The good ones will listen to ya and learn from it. These guys are right. No way are you gonna notch that wall like that. Either run the brick all the way up or do the ledge detail. Call the archy and see what he says.
__________________
"The pro is the person who has all the hassles, obstacles, and disappointing frustrations that everyone else has. yet continues to persist, does the job, and makes it look easy."
Warren is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Warren For This Useful Post:
Chris@Sunrise (02-03-2010)
Old 11-29-2009, 09:49 PM   #6
Al Smith
 
A W Smith's Avatar
 
Trade: Home Improvement contractor since 1983, In building field since 1974, Licensed
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: South River NJ
Posts: 2,392
Rewards Points: 1,000
Send a message via ICQ to A W Smith

Re: Framing 2 Story Great Room Wall


If i understand you. You are saying all the others walls will transition from brick to conventional siding at the bottom of the second story floor framing. and be flush except at the great room wall? why not furr the great room wall out above the brick to match surrounding? You can either sister the studs or hang your furred out portion of your wall on a ledger. the architect shoud show this detail on a cutaway.
__________________
Al Smith
http://www.awsmith.com
A W Smith is offline  
Old 11-29-2009, 09:53 PM   #7
Registered User
 
dbryant11's Avatar
 
Trade: Custom Home Builder
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 19
Rewards Points: 10

Re: Framing 2 Story Great Room Wall


Thanks all. I appreciated the info. I'm probably not doing this justice, and describing it correctly. This is pretty common around here. Yes, the intent is for the outside to be "flush." To over simplify, if it were a bedroom, over a kitchen, the bedroom would be cantilevered approximately 4 inches out over the kitchen, with brick on the outside of the kitchen, and then siding on the bedroom wall. Then on the outside, its "flush." I totally agree; I'd rather do all brick, but to make this price point, I'm competing with the larger, production builders, and its fairly common to do brick on the front and then just the first floor of the sides and back, and then do siding above. It all makes perfect sense until I get to the 2 story wall. I agree, it sounds to me like a 2x8 wall sitting on a 2x4 wall with a hinge point I don't like, AND then the mess of different size jam extensions inside. Like I said, I've seen it in production neighborhoods a hundred times, I just haven't seen it at the framing stage to see how its done! Thanks.
dbryant11 is offline  
Old 11-29-2009, 09:59 PM   #8
Registered User
 
dbryant11's Avatar
 
Trade: Custom Home Builder
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 19
Rewards Points: 10

Re: Framing 2 Story Great Room Wall


Al Smith, yes, exactly. And that was my question...... is it furred, sistered, a wider wall sitting on a smaller wall, etc? You've got the idea, I'm just not sure how its best done to get the desired effect and still build the most solid wall I can. I think I need to go tour some production neighborhoods and try and catch one at the framing stage........! Thanks again to all.
dbryant11 is offline  
Old 11-29-2009, 10:38 PM   #9
Pro
 
kyle_dmr's Avatar
 
Trade: Framer
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ontario
Posts: 683
Rewards Points: 644

Re: Framing 2 Story Great Room Wall


High wall framing for brick to siding. Do it on nearly every house I frame.
Frame the 2x6 wall to whatever code is required (probably 12 OC). Sheet the LOWER portion of the wall to the underside of the second floor. Now, depending on amount of overhang your second floor will have for brick to siding, we generally use 4 1/2" sheeting to sheeting. If that is the case you will need to build out your "second" wall accordingly. This is done by cutting studs to length of bottom of second story floor to top of wall. Subtract plates, obviously.
Now the build out. Lets assume 4 1/2" buildout. Wall is sheeted with 1/2" ply,OSB whatever you use. your first top plate and bottom plate will need to be furred out 1" past framing, or 1/2" past first floor sheeting. Nail studs flush to plates (will have 1" gap between 2x4 and 2x6) Frame studs ontop of studs so they can be tired together using blocks on top and bottom of each stud and around all windows the thickness of wall. 9" usually works. This should create a fairly strong wall that will not shear off the 2x6 highwall. Use 2x10 for a double top plate, nailing both walls together. Sheet second story wall and you should create your correct overhang.
Understand? Pictures would be so much easier to describe!
kyle_dmr is offline  
Old 11-29-2009, 11:36 PM   #10
Pro
 
JT Wood's Avatar
 
Trade: carpenter
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Calgary Ab Canada
Posts: 2,791
Rewards Points: 2,530

Re: Framing 2 Story Great Room Wall


Quote:
Originally Posted by A W Smith View Post
If i understand you. You are saying all the others walls will transition from brick to conventional siding at the bottom of the second story floor framing. and be flush except at the great room wall? why not furr the great room wall out above the brick to match surrounding? You can either sister the studs or hang your furred out portion of your wall on a ledger. the architect shoud show this detail on a cutaway.

That's what I was thinking of too. Defintily do not notch the wall though
JT Wood is online now  
Old 11-30-2009, 08:30 AM   #11
Registered User
 
dbryant11's Avatar
 
Trade: Custom Home Builder
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 19
Rewards Points: 10

Re: Framing 2 Story Great Room Wall


Kyle, thanks. I'm going to read this through a couple of times... but yes, this makes sense. As kpatrix mentioned, I'm assuming this results in a deeper jam extension on the 2nd story windows, vs the 1st floor ones? Since the 2nd floor windows will be fixed, and the 1st floor ones will open anyway, I'm hoping the look won't be too obvious...... Thanks again to all!
dbryant11 is offline  
Old 11-30-2009, 08:54 AM   #12
Al Smith
 
A W Smith's Avatar
 
Trade: Home Improvement contractor since 1983, In building field since 1974, Licensed
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: South River NJ
Posts: 2,392
Rewards Points: 1,000
Send a message via ICQ to A W Smith

Re: Framing 2 Story Great Room Wall


you could probably rip I joists down the center of the web and nail the webs to the side of the studs on the inner wall.
__________________
Al Smith
http://www.awsmith.com
A W Smith is offline  
Old 11-30-2009, 11:27 AM   #13
Damn Skippy
 
wallmaxx's Avatar
 
Trade: You can completely control your attitude...if you.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: WA State
Posts: 2,859
Rewards Points: 2,718

Re: Framing 2 Story Great Room Wall


Like Framerman said - I wouldn't rip anything out of a stud.

I would frame the 2 story wall with 2x6s and then for the second floor part, I would "scab" 2x10s or 2x12s beside each 2x6 (whatever it takes to extend outside the wall to create a brick pocket)

It costs more in materials and maybe time, but I would maintain the integrity of the main studs.
wallmaxx is offline  
Old 11-30-2009, 10:46 PM   #14
Pro
 
kyle_dmr's Avatar
 
Trade: Framer
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ontario
Posts: 683
Rewards Points: 644

Re: Framing 2 Story Great Room Wall


Quote:
Originally Posted by dbryant11 View Post
Kyle, thanks. I'm going to read this through a couple of times... but yes, this makes sense. As kpatrix mentioned, I'm assuming this results in a deeper jam extension on the 2nd story windows, vs the 1st floor ones? Since the 2nd floor windows will be fixed, and the 1st floor ones will open anyway, I'm hoping the look won't be too obvious...... Thanks again to all!
You sir are correct. Big monstrous jams for the second story windows. Not as noticeable as one may think.

Wallmax, if any sort of production framing that added cost of 2x10 or whatever you may need to correctly fir out the wall to desired thickness would be a killer alone. Plus the loss of R value wouldn't be much of a helper on top.

I feel that the wall is more then strong enough to support the siding. Have never had a problem that way. Whenever I do this on hand cut roofs I will block below the rafters on top of the highwall point as well as leave the birdsmouth cut onto the build out. Same type of things if there is a brick to siding break midwall. Use 2x10 top plates on a 2x6 wall to create the correct overhang and maintain consistant heel heights. Just block below for added strength. I guess I should add, our inspector we have now is starting to ask for blocking below, as well as a block side running from plate, underside of rafter block to top of rafter and nailed to all pieces of framing to resist twisting out. I agree it is probably a wise suggestion on his point.
kyle_dmr is offline  
Old 12-01-2009, 03:29 AM   #15
Pro
 
carpenter uk's Avatar
 
Trade: carpentry
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 251
Rewards Points: 289

Re: Framing 2 Story Great Room Wall


in the uk you must have an air gap between your brick or what ever external finish and your structural wall which dries out any moisture that may get through

we finished a job earlier this year that was 5 stories with 2 storys brick facing then the rest in cladding
the frame went up then the brickwork was built with a 2 1/2" cavity, this is tied to the frame with metal frame ties which are fixed to the frame then built into the joints of the brickwork

the brickwork is then capped off at the top and a lead soaker runs onto this to prevent water ingress, the siding is then fixed to vertical 2x2's with a smallgap between the lead soaker and the siding to allow air flow behind the siding



__________________

carpenter uk is online now  
Old 12-01-2009, 03:41 AM   #16
Pro
 
KennMacMoragh's Avatar
 
Trade: Repair/Remodel
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,587
Rewards Points: 2,464
Send a message via MSN to KennMacMoragh

Re: Framing 2 Story Great Room Wall


Remember plywood is needed where ever masonry is attached to a wall, can't use OSB. Don't leave a gap for the bugs to hide either when you fur out your wall.
KennMacMoragh is offline  
Old 12-01-2009, 08:58 PM   #17
Pro
 
knucklehead's Avatar
 
Trade: Extraordinary Carpenter
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 3,260
Rewards Points: 2,170

Re: Framing 2 Story Great Room Wall


Sounds like it would be kind of top heavy

Just notch your studs.
knucklehead is offline  
Old 12-02-2009, 04:20 PM   #18
Pro
 
ClemS's Avatar
 
Trade: Framing
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SI, NY
Posts: 506
Rewards Points: 500

Re: Framing 2 Story Great Room Wall


furring the top is the way to go. haven't had it on tall walls like you describe, but have done many gable-ends in this fashion.

a furred out tall wall may look odd from the inside, because the jambs will end up being different depth. i would scrap the brick/siding detail on that wall, and do solid trim with paneling on it.
ClemS is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to ClemS For This Useful Post:
wallmaxx (12-05-2009)
Old 12-05-2009, 09:58 PM   #19
Registered User
 
MrAlba's Avatar
 
Trade: Framing
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 6
Rewards Points: 10

Re: Framing 2 Story Great Room Wall


I would make sure some Timberstrand or lvl posts, double plates, and king studs are incorporated in the wall (I'm surprised no one has mentioned this ). This will allow you to splice the wall horizontally, shorter studs should make a considerably cheaper wall. If using a brick veneer furring out the upper studs will be plenty strong, also less costly than using 2x8.
MrAlba is offline  
Old 12-10-2009, 06:01 PM   #20
Pro
 
cbfx3's Avatar
 
Trade: Framing and General Construction
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 157
Rewards Points: 150

Re: Framing 2 Story Great Room Wall


I would build out the top section

cbfx3 is offline  


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
3rd story framing BattleRidge Framing 26 02-13-2011 08:19 PM
Question: how to frame a new interior wall to a cathedral ceiling jgdservices Framing 7 10-14-2009 07:21 PM
This is truly an amazing framing job. AtlRemodeling Framing 15 01-25-2009 08:55 PM
Need to frame a wall over concrete wall. joseph Carpentry 3 10-07-2008 07:19 PM
framing against block wall JohnHomeMatters Framing 12 10-01-2008 09:19 PM

Join Now... It's Fast and FREE!

I am a professional contractor
I am a DIY Homeowner
Drywall Talk is for
PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS ONLY!

At DrywallTalk.com we cater exlusivly to professional contractors who make their living as a contractor. Knowing that many homeowners and DIYers are looking for a community to call home, we've created www.DIYChatroom.com DIY Chatroom is full of helpful advices and perfect for DIY homeowners.

Redirecing in 10 seconds
No Thanks
terms of service

Already Have an Account?