Do You Overcut? - Page 4 - Framing - Contractor Talk

Do You Overcut?

 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-12-2009, 05:26 AM   #61
Pro
 
PA woodbutcher's Avatar
 
Trade: Remodeling
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northeast, Pa
Posts: 1,965
Rewards Points: 1,000

Re: Do You Overcut?


Quote:
Originally Posted by neolitic View Post
If one notches a joist, or makes
a ledger cut in a joist, it is against
common practice and codes to
over cut.....at all.
I learned to cut stairs watching Dad,
and he never over cut them, so
I have always just put 2 and 2
together.....
Not condemning any of my
betters here though.
I also learned from my father who never overcut

Quote:
Originally Posted by neolitic View Post
Using the old tools some times
will give you a whole new appreciation
for the guys who came before you.
I still have my dads old rip and crosscut saw and a set tool for the teeth. Not sure where they are right now. I do keep a stanley short cut sa in the truck, but rarely use it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuiltByMAC View Post
I don't overcut, but I don't use hand saws either. Jigsaw works just fine by me. Toss a 6" jigsaw blade in and it doesn't want to wander as easily. I usually use the jig saw also. I have a cordless dewalt that works great. Just as handy as the recip saw, but less wander

Liked the thought of drilling the hole at the corner - softer transition means less likelihood for future splits and failure. Might have ta try that on the next set...Not real sure about that one..I mean the less chance of split.

I've heard of stacked dado blades in the same manner - neither method appeals to me. Too much open spinning metal for a chance of binding/kickback...I've stacked blades in order to cut a channel for flashing. Very careful as there is more bite for kickback.

I'll second Wallmaxx's stair test, good way to test 'em out. I weigh 150 # so this method doesn't seem to work for me very well. Usually stand in the middle of he stairs and have someone else walk up and down them to see how much I feel as they're walking.
I will also bow to Wall's proffesionalism and his overcuts
__________________
When you rob Peter to pay Paul, chances are pretty good you will receive Paul's vote. Apparently the object of the game is to create more Pauls than Peters....What happens when the Peters can no longer support the Pauls? .
PA woodbutcher is offline  

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

   

Advertisement

 

Old 02-12-2009, 05:28 AM   #62
Pro
 
Deicide1's Avatar
 
Trade: General Contractor
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Syracuse, Ny
Posts: 120
Rewards Points: 75

Re: Do You Overcut?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cole View Post
Like I have stated before, I do overcut, when I am in a rush. 90% of the time, I dont, but I have a question for you guys that dont overcut ever.

Are the guys who overcut hacks in your eyes?

Interesting thread here.
Yes, overcutting is very hack-like. Take the time to do the job properly.


I finish the cut with either a jap saw or jigsaw, depending on the amount needed to be done.
Deicide1 is offline  
Old 02-12-2009, 07:42 AM   #63
Member
 
SNC's Avatar
 
Trade: SE Carpenter
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: US
Posts: 99
Rewards Points: 75

Re: Do You Overcut?


NO! I run two short cords at the end of a 100'er, one for my Skil saw and one for my jig saw. Flipping the board takes to long and i usually have a lot of stringers to cut.
SNC is offline  
   
 
Old 02-12-2009, 07:57 AM   #64
Pro
 
Joe Carola's Avatar
 
Trade: Framing Contractor
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Caldwell, New Jersey
Posts: 1,571
Rewards Points: 1,012

Re: Do You Overcut?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cole View Post
Like I have stated before, I do overcut, when I am in a rush. 90% of the time, I dont, but I have a question for you guys that dont overcut ever.

Are the guys who overcut hacks in your eyes?

Interesting thread here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deicide1 View Post
Yes, overcutting is very hack-like. Take the time to do the job properly.


I finish the cut with either a jap saw or jigsaw, depending on the amount needed to be done.
Are you saying hack-like for guys who overcut stringers and rafters, or just over cutting stringers?
__________________
Joe Carola
Joe Carola is offline  
Old 02-12-2009, 09:01 AM   #65
Pro
 
Gary H's Avatar
 
Trade: Framer
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Munger Michigan
Posts: 2,910
Rewards Points: 2,342

Re: Do You Overcut?


Quote:
Originally Posted by wallmaxx View Post
Wow.

So did that yellin stop when you plugged his mouth with your fist?

If violence isn't an option...just start dating his mom...that puts a whole new spin on things.
Thats a good one.
Gary H is offline  
Old 02-12-2009, 10:55 AM   #66
Pro
 
Meetre's Avatar
 
Trade: Carpentry
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 646
Rewards Points: 500

Re: Do You Overcut?


Quote:
Originally Posted by wallmaxx View Post
Wow.

So did that yellin stop when you plugged his mouth with your fist?

If violence isn't an option...just start dating his mom...that puts a whole new spin on things.

No, didn't hit him. I wanted to, but some how managed not to. I did leave that job that week, finally got feed up enough to start my own business because of that day.

Best part about it, the steps in question were getting covered with carpet!
Meetre is offline  
Old 02-12-2009, 06:23 PM   #67
Registered User
 
Lester S.'s Avatar
 
Trade: General
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Kailua-Kona HI
Posts: 13
Rewards Points: 10

Re: Do You Overcut?


Never overcut anything. Why not take the time?
Lester S. is offline  
Old 02-12-2009, 06:53 PM   #68
The Duke
 
Kent Whitten's Avatar
 
Trade: Cabinet Maker
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Portland, Maine
Posts: 14,746
Rewards Points: 2,040

Re: Do You Overcut?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lester S. View Post
Never overcut anything. Why not take the time?
In the situations I have listed above, I feel it's not necessary. My old boss told me "we ain't building a piano". There is a point in framing (or anything) where your concentrated focus on little things is detrimental to the actual outcome.
__________________
If you correct your mind, the rest of your life will fall into place ~Lao Tzu

SalmonFallsCabinetry.com

Salmon Falls Cabinetry on Facebook
Kent Whitten is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Kent Whitten For This Useful Post:
Cole (02-12-2009)
Old 02-12-2009, 07:56 PM   #69
Mod / ArchiBuilder

 
Cole's Avatar
 
Trade: Design/Build Pergolas & Pavilions
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ArkLaTexOma
Posts: 6,938
Rewards Points: 1,486

Re: Do You Overcut?


Quote:
Originally Posted by framerman View Post
In the situations I have listed above, I feel it's not necessary. My old boss told me "we ain't building a piano". There is a point in framing (or anything) where your concentrated focus on little things is detrimental to the actual outcome.
Cole is offline  
Old 02-12-2009, 08:34 PM   #70
KemoSabe
 
loneframer's Avatar
 
Trade: residential framing/siding/general carpentry
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Vineland, New Jersey
Posts: 14,231
Rewards Points: 12,214

Re: Do You Overcut?


Overcutting on rafter birdsmouth cuts is harmless because the seat cut bears fully on the wall plate.
Overcutting an inside intesection such as a stair notch not only is unsightly but could possibly weaken
the framing structure of the stairs. (Could) is reason enough for me to spend what amounts to about
five minutes on an average run of stairs from floor to floor. Remember; just because you can't see it,
doesn't mean it isn't there.
loneframer is offline  
Old 02-12-2009, 09:07 PM   #71
Pro
 
Deicide1's Avatar
 
Trade: General Contractor
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Syracuse, Ny
Posts: 120
Rewards Points: 75

Re: Do You Overcut?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Carola View Post
Are you saying hack-like for guys who overcut stringers and rafters, or just over cutting stringers?

Only on stringers. Stairs are something to take time on and do right.


Cutting the birdsmouth on rafters isn't such deal...and I use a stacked Dado on them and there is no way to overcut!
Deicide1 is offline  
Old 02-12-2009, 09:20 PM   #72
Pro
 
Joe Carola's Avatar
 
Trade: Framing Contractor
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Caldwell, New Jersey
Posts: 1,571
Rewards Points: 1,012

Re: Do You Overcut?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lester S. View Post
Never overcut anything. Why not take the time?
You can overcut rafters without any problems. There's no need to waste time cutting them with a jigsaw, handsaw or anything else.
__________________
Joe Carola
Joe Carola is offline  
Old 02-12-2009, 09:53 PM   #73
Pro
 
D.Foster's Avatar
 
Trade: Carpentry & Remodeling
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: N.Y. State
Posts: 711
Rewards Points: 500

Re: Do You Overcut?


Quote:
Originally Posted by borat_borat1950 View Post
A 1 X 12 skirt board by the trim guy fills this nicely!! and they love us framers that think this out for them!!!
Think what out?? How to step out a framing square, and do math?
I would'nt want that kinda trim guy on my job.
__________________
Do what you would do, as if i won't Do anything after you Did It!
D.Foster is offline  
Old 02-12-2009, 10:00 PM   #74
Pro
 
dubz's Avatar
 
Trade: General Contracting
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwest Hills of CT
Posts: 290
Rewards Points: 250

Re: Do You Overcut?


I over cut rafters now. I used to not, but I saw other good framers do it so I started.

I am pretty good at judging just how much to allow the piece to fall slowly as I pull the saw away, or sometimes I have to give it a little tap with the side of the shoe to make it fall. You have to notch a little corner out with a utility knife most of them, but I don't mind. You kind of get in the groove and do the steps in a nice fluid motion.

I can't envision what using a set of dado's does for you when cutting rafters. Please explain, decide1
dubz is offline  
Old 02-12-2009, 10:54 PM   #75
Pro
 
D.Foster's Avatar
 
Trade: Carpentry & Remodeling
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: N.Y. State
Posts: 711
Rewards Points: 500

Re: Do You Overcut?


they used to market a dado set for worm drives, a beast of a thing. And you could bevel it, and gang cut all the birds mouths at once. I saw it in a tauntons roof book.
I didnt know you could still get them though, maybe second hand.
__________________
Do what you would do, as if i won't Do anything after you Did It!
D.Foster is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to D.Foster For This Useful Post:
dubz (02-13-2009)
Old 02-12-2009, 11:50 PM   #76
Pro
 
Timuhler's Avatar
 
Trade: Framer
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Port Orchard, WA
Posts: 1,061
Rewards Points: 746

Re: Do You Overcut?


Quote:
Originally Posted by D.Foster View Post
they used to market a dado set for worm drives, a beast of a thing. And you could bevel it, and gang cut all the birds mouths at once. I saw it in a tauntons roof book.
I didnt know you could still get them though, maybe second hand.
You can get a machine shop to make them. John Harman shows his in his article for JLC http://www.jlconline.com/cgi-bin/jlc.../View/0409gang

He had a machine shop make it. I think, but don't quote me, that you can get Big Foot to make one. I'm not 100% on that though.

The problem I've been told, is that you don't want ot use it on pitches over 7-12 because it is hard on the saw to take out that much meat at once. I think John said he prefers to use it 6-12 and under and his might be wired for 220v.
Timuhler is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Timuhler For This Useful Post:
D.Foster (02-13-2009), dubz (02-13-2009)
Old 02-13-2009, 12:02 AM   #77
CAD Services
 
wallmaxx's Avatar
 
Trade: So done with this place...
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,678
Rewards Points: 144

Re: Do You Overcut?


Okay

I am going to have to weigh in on the over-cut side.

Come on...let's get real here. Some have said that is seriously weakens the stringer...that's just false. A bunch of knots in your stringer do that no matter how pretty your cut is.

I happened to cut a stringer today. I did it the same way I do all my inside, non-exposed stringers. The evil "over-cut" is 15/16" on the face and 0" on the back. It slopes from face to back at the arc radius of 3 5/8" from what comes from a 2 1/2" deep cut.

Now, "over-cutting" makes absolutely no difference on the stringers that are attached to walls, right? Do we all agree?

So really, we are only concerned with the free standing stringers as far as being "weaker." Sure, over-cut vs non over-cut is more wood removed...at this stage. However, I always add a ripped 2x6 to both sides of all my middle stringers and usually a midspan knee wall. Also, I use 2x12 treads and 2x8 risers...very solid.

When I read the dogmatic comments about how "wrong" it is to over-cut...I laugh. Of all the nit picky things to worry about. I guess if I was using OSB or 1/2" ply for treads, and 2x10s for stringers (like I saw in N. Delta (Vancouver) BC I would be more concerned.
Attached Thumbnails
Do you overcut?-dsc07352.jpg   Do you overcut?-dsc07354.jpg   Do you overcut?-dsc07350.jpg  

Last edited by wallmaxx; 02-13-2009 at 12:43 AM.
wallmaxx is offline  
Old 02-13-2009, 12:03 AM   #78
CAD Services
 
wallmaxx's Avatar
 
Trade: So done with this place...
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,678
Rewards Points: 144

Re: Do You Overcut?


I will photo document this set
Attached Thumbnails
Do you overcut?-dsc07347.jpg   Do you overcut?-dsc07346.jpg  
wallmaxx is offline  
Old 02-13-2009, 12:07 AM   #79
Pro
 
BuiltByMAC's Avatar
 
Trade: Deck guy
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 3,257
Rewards Points: 2,270

Re: Do You Overcut?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Timuhler View Post
John Harman shows his in his article for JLC
Hey Tim, if you're a subscriber to JLC, do you get into their website free? I went to look at that article and got the first 100 words before they wanted to charge me $3 to view the rest...

Mac
BuiltByMAC is offline  
Old 02-13-2009, 12:24 AM   #80
Registered User
 
Lester S.'s Avatar
 
Trade: General
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Kailua-Kona HI
Posts: 13
Rewards Points: 10

Re: Do You Overcut?


I guess the attitude of " We're not building a piano " is quite prevalent in some areas. When running some guys, the attitude of being precise helps alot. Once it gets away from you, it's hard to get it back.

Advertisement

Lester S. is offline  


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Stair risers/kickers wallmaxx Framing 25 03-28-2009 11:19 PM

Join Now... It's Fast and FREE!

I am a professional contractor
I am a DIY Homeowner
Drywall Talk is for
PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS ONLY!

At DrywallTalk.com we cater exlusivly to professional contractors who make their living as a contractor. Knowing that many homeowners and DIYers are looking for a community to call home, we've created www.DIYChatroom.com DIY Chatroom is full of helpful advices and perfect for DIY homeowners.

Redirecing in 10 seconds
No Thanks
terms of service

Already Have an Account?