Cut And Pitch

hughjazz

not yet,

Attached Thumbnails

 

DrewD

Square foundations? Only seen one. Over 55' on the diagonal it was out only a 1/16". The only foundation man I ever bought a beer for. I watched him work once, I haven't seen a cabinetmaker as fussy as him. It really shows though when all you had to do was drop your mudsills and go.

Birch

If you're going to make a mistake, do it on purpose, and keep reason and remedy in your front left pocket first.

Framers often have to make things work. There are times when shifting, squeezing and shrinking aren’t enough. I have seen some real whopper foundations for crazy problems. Some foundations were so bad they couldn’t be saved. And I have also been asked by the foundation contractor to pop off the slab for the other framer who was squaring correctly but couldn’t get the plans centered well enough to work as dimensioned, so they blamed the plumbers and the slab guy and yet I never had any similar major issues with his/their work.

I think that there are many framers who haven’t learned to place a house centered on a slab foundation too. I see too many guys pull a single line off one edge to mark the first longest wall without pre assessing the dimensional accuracy for parallel or square. They mark a longest line and start pulling and nothing (roof offsets, drops in elevation, plumbing, electrical, etc.) is as it should be.

I always pull parallel walls and check for square walls simultaneously (check diagonals), that is step one, Framing 101

wallmaxx

That rule is especially true in commercial/multi-family. Sometimes those babies are pre-built by a panel factory somewhere. The best thing to do is find dead center and pop out from there. Then you are only "adjusting" the outside connecting walls if you HAVE to. The bulk of the rest of the walls on the inside are exactly to the plans.

Here's an old pop out plan I did a while back

Attached Thumbnails

 

Birch

That's nice, (fool proof,) complete with the calculated diagonal. With something like that, what could go wrong?

With truss roofs especially, it is necessary to keep a strict dimensional layout. I always cover up as many mistakes as I possibly can for the other trades. My policy on extras is; "Extra work merits extra charges. If the changes made are not at my expense, No Charge."

The worst out-of-square slab I was given was 34" difference on the diagonal. The end wall needed to hang 17" off the slab. I didn't frame that one and they eventually used the relatively small slab as it was. That one turned out looking very funky to say the least. I still wonder if it makes the occupants dizzy.

I had another one were the tire bump in the garage went from 6" tall to 6'-6" tall because of steep lot conditions and a super who pointed at the wrong drop for change. We framed that one w/ a 15' garage ceiling. The new homeowner couldn't get his car in the garage and signed off on it before we framed it.

The absolute worst was a commercial building that was 3' to wide. It was 3' to wide over the property line. Since that property sold by the square foot it was an expensive fix. The truss company just added 3' to the floor trusses without running new load specs. A few weeks after it was occupied the floor system failed, the building was evacuated, until they redesigned and fixed the floor. The slab mans general liability covered everything.

Luckily, most major slab problems get caught long before they are poured. The ones that don't are haunting.

I know of a $300k+ home that just sold for 15k at auction because of a catastrophic foundation failure. It broke in two because a spring appeared under the center of it. Cracked like an egg.

wallmaxx

Wow.........so what goes through your mind when you are pulling a tape square and the number is 34" off? I would be thinking the guy holding the other end is messin' with me............wow.

Birch

I'd say I probably had the usual thoughts that a framer whose gravy train just got derailed by a dizzy slab contractor would have. … Sit down a minute and let the spinning subside, “Damn! I need to hustle up another job!” 34” is a little much isn’t it. Must be some kind of FUBAR record?

Joe Carola

The worst one I've seen was when I went to start a house back in 1985. It was 20x50, well it was supposed to be. I was in the front and pulled the tape to read 20' and the other guy reads 19'. I obviously thought he was busting my chops. He wasn't. The mason must of went to the inside of the 12" block and it was 19' back and 20' front. At least the front wall and right side wall were square. Who knows maybe if the dimensions were right he would've been square all the way around.

__________________
Joe Carola