Cut And Pitch

accidentprone

Hello everyone, am a newbie and I have a question I hope you wouldn't mind answering?

I have been a qualified carpenter for around five years now, but have only done a handful of Cut and Pitch roofs. I am currently doing a regular hipped roof for a dormer, the pitch is an 8 in 12.

The plates are my problem and how they affect the RUN calculation.

I shalll try and explain, if you can envisage the dormer protruding out of the side of the house, you will have a wall plate on left and a wall plate on the right which take the common rafters etc, which are parallel to one another. Additionaly there is the shorter wall plate at the front which takes the crown rafter and the hip jacks forming the hipped end. Its is the shorter plate which is the issue, for this plate runs out of square inwardly from the right plate to the left plate.

I have put two commons either side of the ridge and also put in the crown rafter, so the basic structure is in place. I then cut the hip for the right hand corner and fixed it and then cut the hip for the left corner using exactly the same measurements used for the right hip, however the left hip appears to be to long.

The Run for this roof is 75.25", which all the timbers thus far have been calculated from and work perfectly well, with the exception of the right hip. However, because of the problem I have with the right hip and the fact the plate is out of square at this point. My question is this.

Do i need to reduce the run measurement for this hip by the amount that the plate is out of square by, to enable me to get the hip to fit properly and should this be the solution would I then need adjust the crown rafter run in relation to the percentage of out of squareness at this point also?

If this is not the answer could you please tell me the solution, extremely apprecited Newbie.

kevjob

-----------------------------------

__________________
Kevin
Basement Finishing Highlands Ranch Colorado
Littleton Colorado, Basement Remodeling
Kitchen Remodeling Denver

forsmant

Why aren't the walls square?

knucklehead

I suggest a tape measure and some string lines. And maybe stand back and look at it once in a while

house bldr

Both hips should be the same. If you have a birds mouth cut in it simply swing it over to the point where it would be if the wall were straight.This will make the soffitt longer on one end but the roof straight.If you change your hip it would change all the jack rafters also.This is assuming the walls aren't to far off!

Joe Carola

Can you explain why the walls aren't square?

__________________
Joe Carola

KennMacMoragh

When something like that happens I usually look at it for a while, go take a leak, then come back and look at it again, then I figure it out. It sounds like the best thing to do is find a happy medium. Meaning cut both hips the same, which you already did, measure your over hang on the long hip, and cut it the difference between the two. If the left side has a one inch longer overhang, cut half an inch off. Then measure and cut each one between the two points for your seat cuts, and snap a line for your end cuts. Not much else you can do to hide the mistake, unless you want to knock the wall back into square.

Out of square walls don't create much of a problem until you put the roof on. However, I did a roof on walls that were out of square about four inches once. It causes problems, especially with the sheathing, but it's doable. The concrete guy was drunk, made his walls out of square, then no one catches it and it just magnifies all the way up, it happens.

festerized

is the main roof and dormer roof the same pitch?

SC sawdaddy

Did you allow the 3/4" off the hips for the ridge?

accidentprone

Read all your posts and thank you very much for the taking the time to respond.

The walls aren't square because the block work was done by an amateur!

In the end I simply pulled the hip back to where it should be as if the walls were square and split the difference between the two hips then lined all the hip jacks accordingly. The fascia and soffit cuts can be fiddled to allow for the out of square.

Once again thank you for your help.

Jason

KentWhitten

Don't blame anyone else. The frame needs to be squared by the framer. Period.

__________________
If you correct your mind, the rest of your life will fall into place ~Lao Tzu

Custom Cabinetry - Portland, Cape Elizabeth, Scarborough, Kennebunkport, Yarmouth, Falmouth, Cumberland, Ogunquit, Maine

Salmon Falls Cabinetry

Joe Carola

Why would you follow a foundation that isn't square?

What happens when the HO asks you why your framing isn't square? Blaming the mason isn't an option.Do you always follow foundations that aren't square, or do you ever snap square lines and make your framing square?

Square up foundation and snap square lines everywhere and framing follows those lines, period! The sills can stick off the foundation a little to make it square and the mason can fix is own mess. A mason should leave us with a square foundation and if off a little we will pick it up and make sure our work is square.

If I followed out-of-square foundations and all my walls were out-of-square and the cabinet guy/tile guy shows the HO that my walls are not square, I can't blame the mason. I have to fix every wall. How can you justify that you follow a bad foundation and not make your own NEW work square?

I've had a few arguments over the years with some masons because of this. They come back and ask me why I stuck the sills past the foundation and I tell them that it wasn't square. Some of these pineapples actually said to me that I should've followed their mess and throw the framing out--of-square because it makes them look bad. That's when the conversation turns ugly. I will say to them,"So you want me to look bad when all the trades come in and try to follow my mess because you don't know how to square a foundation".

Framers have no excuse and no one to blame but themselves if they follow a bad foundation and not make the framing square. Squaring up foundations and making your work square is framing 101.

__________________
Joe Carola

festerized

Joe you couldn't of said it any better
I have a clause in my contract that additional charges will apply if Masonary walls are out of square and not level

scottalan

I have NEVER had a foundation that was square and I mean never,thats just the way it is around here no sense in complaining just get your sills square and move on.

Have any of you guys ever had a foundation that you didn't have to square up?

buckeyeso2

we always check them, and yes, we have had some foundations over the years that have been right on. we have a good, experienced concrete guy, but i would still never frame to his foundation without checking first!!

RobQuillin

Being a remodel contractor that specialized in historic homes I have had to frame roofs on walls that were not square. When you are doing this alot of the normal techniques go out the window. What I ended up doing is run my common rafters first on the side walls and extend my sub facial out past where the hips would be. I then strung a line on them to make sure that they were streight, and make sure that everything was level. Then I ran a line accross the front where the inside of the facia would be so I had a point of referance. I cut my hip on one side and then I cut the hip on the other side so that all my points lined up with the stringline. The cuts were different on each hip but when everything was said and done, it looked perfect. The big trick is that the jack rafters on the front will be slightly different pitches from end to end. Because the wall is out of square you have to compensate by gradually changing pitch and by changing the cut of the birdsmouth. I do agree that if these are walls that you have framed up you should make them square. It will take you less time to square up the walls then do what I have described here. I only do this when I have a whole house that is out of square and reframing is not an option. Good luck.

Joe Carola

After checking for square, I've had quite a few that I didn't have to adjust.

__________________
Joe Carola

Joe Carola

What real framers would just snap lines on a foundation and frame without checking for square?

__________________
Joe Carola

KentWhitten

You're right, real framers check for square, and I don't mean 3-4-5 or 6-8-10.. You know as well as I do that we are the minority, which just makes us look that much better.

__________________
If you correct your mind, the rest of your life will fall into place ~Lao Tzu

Custom Cabinetry - Portland, Cape Elizabeth, Scarborough, Kennebunkport, Yarmouth, Falmouth, Cumberland, Ogunquit, Maine

Salmon Falls Cabinetry

deckman22

I always thought that was the first thing you did when you popped off the slab, check for square, adjust accordingly if not square.

I guess I followed a good concrete guy, alot of the slabs I framed on were spot on square.

__________________
Deckman
www.alscustomdecks.com