Bracing Pyramid Hip Framing Please Help.

TurnkeyConst

Hey guys, well I haven't been around to post in a while been extremely busy. I am currently on a project for a mini house/ training facility for a cable company. I have constructed a 20x20 building. It has a hip roof with a 7/12 slope. I was told when we built one in another county that the roof is self suppotive not needing collar ties. But I wasn't the contractor on the job so we went with what they said and left it be. But I am the contractor on this one and I would like to know if any bracing is required? I would rather do it right instead of getting a failed inspection. I am going to post 2 pictures. (1) of the framing from the inside and the (2) a side view of the house showing the roof from one wall and spans across an intermediate wall and ends at the porch framing. The ceiling is framed 2x8's 24" o.c. Spanning the 16'. Any help would sure be appreciative or if you guys know any good books on complex roof framing that would be really helpful. Seems as the economy is dropping that is all we keep coming across job wise.

Picture (1)


Picture (2)
[URL=http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2004172150101321264hAENnL][/URL

rbsremodeling

I have never seen collar ties used in a hip roof.

Do you have a set of plans??

you said you where getting an inspection so I assume you have plans what did the plans call for?

__________________

TurnkeyConst

I drew the plans by hand with roof framing showing only layout and material used. I didn't note any bracing. The plans went and were accepted by a commercial plans examiner. But I haven't dealt with bracing in a situation such as this. So that is why I asked to be on the safe side. So if anyone can help me figure this out I greatly appreciate it in advance!

rbsremodeling

I have been a bit of a prick lately answering questions but I was being sincere in helping you

I have never seen collar ties on a hip roof before. Defeats the purpose if it is frame properly

If the plan was sign off on it meets minimum coded requirements and if frame right will pass inspection

Do you think you need collar ties for a reason?? is the structure swaying or sagging??

__________________

TurnkeyConst

Ok I understand what you are saying. I am not getting any sagging or swaying. I didnt think I needed any bracing but before I called for an inspection I was wanting to get an opinion from someone like yourself. I have been told they were self supported. All the framing is tight. Cut and spaced properly, no gaps and missed angles as I have seen on other roofs people have done. I appreciate all your help in the matter! I didnt take your reply as being a prick either. If you learn to do things right you wont have many problems from inspectors for the most part. Thanks RBS!

rbsremodeling

Your welcome. There are much better framers/contractors/members here on this forum maybe they will weigh in as well and give their opinions. Wallmax is top notch from the work I have seen maybe he will add is 2 cents

__________________

KentWhitten

Something that size is not much of a concern. Just so you know, yes, the theory is there that it is self supporting. But there can be factors that may change this. Picture something incredibly heavy right on the point of where those 4 hips meet, like a sherman tank. Where is it going to fail when it fails?

The connections at those 4 hips have to be rock solid at the top plates. Then don't forget your overlapping on the top plates need to be nailed to bejesus also.

This doesn't mean you can use 2x4's for hips though. Let's put it this way. if you build it, sheathe it, and get 2-200+ pound guys jumping on the peak and it's rock solid, then you're set at least for maybe 5 years or so. If she's bouncing like a trampoline, then take 'er down. Professional advice!

__________________
If you correct your mind, the rest of your life will fall into place ~Lao Tzu

Custom Cabinetry - Portland, Cape Elizabeth, Scarborough, Kennebunkport, Yarmouth, Falmouth, Cumberland, Ogunquit, Maine

Salmon Falls Cabinetry

Aframe

I agree on the no collar ties. It looks as there no ceiling going in this building. From my experience hip roofs are attached to the plates with a floor or ceiling that hold the walls inline. The couple that I have built with open/raised ceilings have had additional structural members, steel or threaded rod with turnbuckles.


Although for one point to move there would have to be movement at another. Unlikely as it may be if there were any movement of the walls, it would lead to roof movement.
If there is real concern of getting some bracing in it at the wall plates is where I would put it.

daystoshort

your weak point will be at the corners i have built many hip roofs with no collar ties.beef up the corners with a simpson truss plate so it does not pull apart one in each corner about 25 bucks will save you big bucks in the end.

TurnkeyConst

I appreciate all your input guys! Im glad to hear you say that the strong point is at the plate because we have been accused of overnailing and also using strong tie brackets for added support. All our connections are very secure and also include hurricane clips at every rafter holding the roof to the top plates. I also have a ceiling which is now framed keeping the walls in line which you cant see in the picture because it wasnt done yet. To the sherman tank comment............ if theres one on this building I dont want to be in town lol. Thanks again guys!

whaler

I'm not looking at any celing beams, also the coller ties seem invisible. Bottom line : nail it good cause it ain't as tough as you think.

TurnkeyConst

Well guys I got a framing inspection and everything passed with flying colors!!!! Got props from the inspector! Also said that it was one of the better pyramid hips he has seen framing wise. All our angles and hips angles were dead on! So indeed it passed! I appreciate all the input again! We also did the 2-200lb guy test well actually the roofers 3 of them and two of us framers all jumped at the peak with others watching and if we had any flex anywhere it was undetectable. The last one we built is still standing strong after a year and a half so I suspect no problems out of this one either.

Shellbuilder

Scotto,
Are you an engineer? I've read todays name calling and other expert advice. Clear the air and post a real profile so we can all be amazed.

__________________
www.shelladditions.com

Shellbuilder

About scotto1950
Company Name
Our Days Your Lives
Your Job Title
the cut man
My Contracting Trade
framing

Click on your name and edit it. How about your website and work history, education, awards, membership affiliations, license, work area etc. Certainly you have more to share than calling others tardo or insist we all go smoke dope.

__________________
www.shelladditions.com

Robert carozza

They are self supporting but the one thing I like to do is bolt a heavy 90degree angle clip to the top plate and to the hip,
But really it won't go anywhere, just good nailing is all you need

Birch

What I like to do with diamond hips is center the rafter bay.