hughjazz

Hello, I was wondering what people on the boards would recommend for a book on stick building roofs.


It's all trusses up here. So I may never even need to know how,
but I would like to learn some of the theory and practical application with stick building roofs. Thanks

Joe Carola

A good book to buy is from Will Holladay, "A Roof Cutter's Secrets". Covers a ton of stuff about roof framing. Lots of pictures, drawings and formulas.


http://www.jlconline.com/cgi-bin/jlc...products/RC107

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Joe Carola

strathd

I have that book also. Good illustrations. Once you get the basics down use a construction master calculator. It makes calculation MUCH easier than having to convert 10 ths to 12 ths on a regular calculater.

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Joe Carola

I know, I sleep with mine. Been using one for years now. Mans best friend.

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Joe Carola

DrewD

First book I ever bought on framing. So much information in such a small book.

KennMacMoragh

I learned through the book "Carpentry" by Leonard Koel, but I've never been able to apply any of his roof framing techniques. The only time I've ever done layout on a stick framed roof is when I've had a ridge beam supported by posts or hangers. And with that type of roof, you can't use the traditional roof framing methods with rafter tables or a framing square. If you did it that way and pre-cut your rafters, they wouldn't fit. You have to just set your beam in place and measure each one.

Warren

Why souldn't they fit?? Math is math.

Joe Carola

Why do you say that they won't fit and you will have to measure each rafter. No matter what way you figure the beam height all the rafters should be and can be cut the same length.You set the beam height according to the pitch and the birdsmouth's and HAP cuts on the rafter. I'm not following what you're saying.

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Joe Carola

woodworkbykirk

continuing where joe left off, the only thing required as well is to reduce the 1/2" the thickness of the ridge

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cutting some wood

wallmaxx

Every stick of lumber IN ANY ROOF can be calculated and cut on the ground. If you know what you are doing it the best way to go. If not, then measuring from plates to skeleton is your next method. The problem with measuring each piece is its slow, and you won't know if your skeleton is a bit out of whack.

When you calc everything - little things like out of plumb/square walls will show up quickly.

Do what works for you and keeps you happy.

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KennMacMoragh

Maybe I'd have to see that work to be convinced of it. I have never tried to pre-cut rafters to length with a pre-set ridge, with how accurate framers around here do their work, I really doubt they would fit. If a part of a wall was out of plumb a little bit, or if the beam was set a little too high on one end, or if something of that nature was wrong, then the rafters wouldn't fit, and hand cut rafters are expensive. The only way I can see pre-cut rafters working is if you used the technique where you nail the rafters to the ridge before it is set in place, that way even if something was off, they should all still fit.

ribuilder

Maybe I do it the old fashioned way...but I rarley pre-set my ridge on a traditional stick frame. I get my run, pitch lay it out (step-off method) , nail 4 of them up, (2 on each side as wide as I can go) Then slip in the ridge, after its been laid out accordingly. Never failed me. Presure holds it in so you can fine tune it. This isnt cornice molding or detail work here...there is room for some variances when framing IMHO.

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Joe Carola

I've never once preset a ridge for a gable and I set the rafters first and slide the ridge in between and the rafters set the height like you do. I was talking about setting a big ridge beam like a glulam or micrloam for a cathedral ceiling. Math will always work. You still step off rafters.....old school huh.....

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Joe Carola

loneframer

I have never done roof any other way than to calculate the rafters and precut. The rafters set the ridge height in most cases. When a large carrying beam is involved, some extra care in figuring the beam pockets is in order.

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hughjazz

Thanks guys, I'll give that book a try!

KennMacMoragh

Those are the roofs I was talking about, the glue lam ridge beams are fairly common around here. It's the only reason to really build a stick frame roof, people do it for esthetics, it's the only way to add a story without making the outside of the building look too high, you can't do that with roof trusses.

And I see what you mean with your system, I'm sure if the two of us were framing one, we could pre-calculate the rafters fine. But you guys don't seem to understand, it's challenging enough training a crew of guys to frame who can't speak english. A 500 lb ridge beam has to be pre-set, you can't just slide it up between the rafters. And trying to calculate a ridge beam and rafters and actually making them work would be near impossible with most crews I have worked with.

Joe Carola

I understand that you don't have good framers that can cut a roof. You have to understand that we can cut roofs and calculate them on the ground and they will fit, using a big ridge beam that is preset or not. The math always works when presetting a ridge beam.


No one is saying that they do that. We do that with a normal ridge.

That's unfortunate because it's not rocket science.

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Joe Carola

Warren

It doesn't take the whole crew to calculate the rafters. It is usually left up to the lead guy. Measuring every rafter is very inefficient and likely to be inaccurate. Most of the time when doing larger rafters, I will layout one and mark it as pattern. I usually wont take this rafter up and test fit it. I will make a second one and when we test fit, if it fits we nail it in. This saves time because we dont have to lug this big rafter up, test it, and bring it back down.

That being said, we all make mistakes when calculating, but practice makes perfect (almost) and even with mistakes, the process is way more efficient and accurate.

Birch

Unless you are pre setting ridges and cutting your rafters to fit then you are probably precutting your roof in some fashion. If you feel better verifying everything prior to commencing cutting then you are not going to be able to keep as many guys busy on that job and will probably not keep up with the competition of larger crews that have someone cutting the roof at the same time the walls are going up. It all just has to get done and the more tasks you can handle simultaneously the quicker you get paid and more checks you collect…..

It isn’t rocket science but if you put them up fast enough it might look like it.

Btw, nice looking roofs loneframer.

KennMacMoragh

I know guys, calculating a roof is easy. Trying to train a crew of unskilled guys and get everything plumb and straight so everything fits isn't.