Contractor Talk - Construction and Remodeling Site
CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!
Go Back   Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum > Trade Talk > Carpentry > Framing

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 09-09-2009, 10:19 AM   #1
dvd
Registered User
Trade: contractor
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 18
3 ply 16" lvl

My plan calls for three 1 3/4 x 16 " drop girder but due to height restraints in that area of basement I would like to set the girder the same height as my I-joist 11 7/8". The span is 18 ft and there is no side load only load from first floor wall and any roof braceing in that area for hips. So my question is can I use four 1 3/4"x11 7/8" lvl's in that area and be as strong as the three 16" LVL's shown on plan? Thanks for any help.

dvd is offline   Reply With Quote
Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

Join Contractor Talk

Join the #1 Contractor Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

ContractorTalk.com - Are you a Professional Contractor? If so we invite you to join our community and see what it has to offer. Our site is specifically designed for you and it's the leading place for contractors to meet online. No homeowners asking DIY questions. Just fellow tradesmen who enjoy talking about their business, their trade, and anything else that comes up. No matter what your trade is you'll find that ContractorTalk.com is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally free!

Join ContractorTalk.com - Click Here JOIN FOR FREE

Old 09-09-2009, 10:47 AM   #2
Curmudgeon
 
neolitic's Avatar
Trade: carpentry/remodeling/"Yes M'am we do"
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Beech Grove, Indiana, Birthplace of the "King of Cool"
Posts: 10,151
http://www.ilevel.com/literature/TJ-9000.pdf
You could take your prints
to your supplier.
They will probably be able to
advise you.
__________________
Put your location in your profile!
(Sorry....it seems there really are dumb questions)
neolitic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2009, 11:25 AM   #3
---
 
loneframer's Avatar
Trade: residential framing/general carpentry
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern New Jersey
Posts: 3,600
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvd View Post
My plan calls for three 1 3/4 x 16 " drop girder but due to height restraints in that area of basement I would like to set the girder the same height as my I-joist 11 7/8". The span is 18 ft and there is no side load only load from first floor wall and any roof braceing in that area for hips. So my question is can I use four 1 3/4"x11 7/8" lvl's in that area and be as strong as the three 16" LVL's shown on plan? Thanks for any help.
If there are no doors in the wall above, you can set the bottom of the beam flush to the bottom of the joists and cut the wall studs to the proper height to maintain top plate height.
Other options are a partial drop of the beam, keeping the top flush to the top of joists, or having an engineer spec a steel flitch to sandwich in between the plies of LVL.
If your engineer allows a 7x11 7/8 beam, I would order it full width to avoid laminating it on site.
You could also consider breaking the span down with a column.
In any case, give an engineer the final say in what you do.
loneframer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2009, 11:47 AM   #4
Member
Trade: Spec GC
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Lake Placid, NY
Posts: 98
My I-Level tables (think "Weyerhaeuser," laminated-veneer-lumber, a.k.a. LVL) show that the total load capability for a triple 16 at 18'6" span is 1066 psf (pounds per foot), and the total load capability for a double 11.875 is only 299 psf. You asked whether a quad 11.875 will handle your situation, and it will, provided that your total load is 299 x 2 or 598 psf or less.

That said, it is readily apparent that a quad 11.875 has less than HALF the load-carrying ability of a triple 16 at your 18-foot span.

Why don't you get whoever figured your triple 16 to sign off on your proposed quad 11.875?

I am an engineer, but I'm not your engineer.

Last edited by UpNorth; 09-09-2009 at 12:33 PM.
UpNorth is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to UpNorth For This Useful Post:
framerman (09-10-2009)
Old 09-09-2009, 11:51 AM   #5
dvd
Registered User
Trade: contractor
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 18
Do you think I could attach the built up 16" lvls to the side of and steel I beam with a top mount hanger on one end and have a bump out on my block wall for the other end? Say if I attach it to the steel beam I could weld a plate say a ft wide to bring the web out even with the top and bottom flange and will have 2x glued and screwed on top of top flange could i mount a hanger for the girder on the side of the steel i beam that way?
dvd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2009, 12:27 PM   #6
Chief hand holder
 
bert0168's Avatar
Trade: Residential Remodeling
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by UpNorth View Post

Why don't you get whomever figured your triple 16 to sign off on your proposed quad 11.875?

This is the advice you should follow.
bert0168 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2009, 12:30 PM   #7
Fentoozler
 
Celtic's Avatar
Trade: Professional Pie and Pastry Taster
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 5,589
I think you should *send the plans and your "idea" back to engineer/archi/drafter for approval.......and get the necessary seal if required.


Lot of questions to be covered by your insurance..
__________________


The UD is quite possibly man kinds finest accomplishment.

Last edited by Celtic; 09-09-2009 at 12:54 PM. Reason: *missed word
Celtic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2009, 12:49 PM   #8
dvd
Registered User
Trade: contractor
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 18
thanks for your input on this I believe I will take your advice.
dvd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2009, 12:50 PM   #9
Curmudgeon
 
neolitic's Avatar
Trade: carpentry/remodeling/"Yes M'am we do"
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Beech Grove, Indiana, Birthplace of the "King of Cool"
Posts: 10,151
Maybe we could help more
if you posted an introduction.
Fill in your profile and give
us some info about yourself
and what you do.
Right now, you are starting to
sound HO-ish.
__________________
Put your location in your profile!
(Sorry....it seems there really are dumb questions)
neolitic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2009, 06:23 PM   #10
Pro
Trade: Framing Contractor
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Caldwell, New Jersey
Posts: 984
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvd View Post
My plan calls for three 1 3/4 x 16 " drop girder but due to height restraints in that area of basement I would like to set the girder the same height as my I-joist 11 7/8". The span is 18 ft and there is no side load only load from first floor wall and any roof braceing in that area for hips. So my question is can I use four 1 3/4"x11 7/8" lvl's in that area and be as strong as the three 16" LVL's shown on plan? Thanks for any help.
No one here can answer your question. Get the Architect who drew the plans to tell you what to do.
__________________
Joe Carola
Joe Carola is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2009, 06:27 PM   #11
Framer
 
Warren's Avatar
Trade: framing/remodeling
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 1,001
Wrong Joe.
I can answer it

NO NO NO NO!
__________________
"Stop wasting lumber. It doesn't grow on trees ya know! Oh wait, it does."
Warren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2009, 09:34 PM   #12
Registered User
Trade: Framer
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvd View Post
Do you think I could attach the built up 16" lvls to the side of and steel I beam with a top mount hanger on one end and have a bump out on my block wall for the other end? Say if I attach it to the steel beam I could weld a plate say a ft wide to bring the web out even with the top and bottom flange and will have 2x glued and screwed on top of top flange could i mount a hanger for the girder on the side of the steel i beam that way?

to address the original post. a quad 12" lvl sounds iffy for the span. a triple 12" lvl with (2) 5/8" steel plates sandwiched in between the plys would do the trick though. as for the connection detail to your i-beam, notch the girder into the beam, then weld a plate on either side of it, then thru-bolt into your new girder with (3) 3/4 bolts.
if you're going into a w10 then i would add a seat plate as well. but the plates and thru-bolts are crucial since you're side-loading the steel.
FramerKid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2009, 11:31 PM   #13
Curmudgeon
 
neolitic's Avatar
Trade: carpentry/remodeling/"Yes M'am we do"
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Beech Grove, Indiana, Birthplace of the "King of Cool"
Posts: 10,151
More guts than sense.
__________________
Put your location in your profile!
(Sorry....it seems there really are dumb questions)
neolitic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2009, 04:18 AM   #14
The Duke
 
framerman's Avatar
Trade: Framing, Custom Carpentry, Architectural Design
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 3,783
Blog Entries: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by FramerKid View Post
to address the original post. a quad 12" lvl sounds iffy for the span. a triple 12" lvl with (2) 5/8" steel plates sandwiched in between the plys would do the trick though. as for the connection detail to your i-beam, notch the girder into the beam, then weld a plate on either side of it, then thru-bolt into your new girder with (3) 3/4 bolts.
if you're going into a w10 then i would add a seat plate as well. but the plates and thru-bolts are crucial since you're side-loading the steel.
And you personally will visit the site and sign off on the modifications to the original submitted plans to the building dept.

Another thing to think about is the MEP's. If you raise that beam and items have to go from one side to another, will you create a different mess for the client to deal with? If they are thinking a clean look of sheetrock on the ceiling and the plumber has to drop the waste line below the bottom of the joists, then you've created another issue.
__________________
If one advances confidently in the direction of one's dreams,
and endeavors to live the life which one has imagined,
one will meet with a success unexpected in common hours
~Henry David Thoreau
framerman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2009, 06:55 PM   #15
Registered User
Trade: Framer
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by framerman View Post
And you personally will visit the site and sign off on the modifications to the original submitted plans to the building dept.

Another thing to think about is the MEP's. If you raise that beam and items have to go from one side to another, will you create a different mess for the client to deal with? If they are thinking a clean look of sheetrock on the ceiling and the plumber has to drop the waste line below the bottom of the joists, then you've created another issue.
he is going perpendicular to the center girder (parallel to floor framing). i answered his question, and don't really care if there's a waste line involved or not. same for the sign off comment.
FramerKid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2009, 07:34 PM   #16
The Duke
 
framerman's Avatar
Trade: Framing, Custom Carpentry, Architectural Design
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 3,783
Blog Entries: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by FramerKid View Post
i answered his question, and don't really care
I noticed
__________________
If one advances confidently in the direction of one's dreams,
and endeavors to live the life which one has imagined,
one will meet with a success unexpected in common hours
~Henry David Thoreau
framerman is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to framerman For This Useful Post:
Celtic (09-10-2009)
Old 09-10-2009, 07:48 PM   #17
Registered User
Trade: Framer
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by framerman View Post
I noticed
not landing much work lately?
FramerKid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2009, 07:57 PM   #18
Curmudgeon
 
neolitic's Avatar
Trade: carpentry/remodeling/"Yes M'am we do"
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Beech Grove, Indiana, Birthplace of the "King of Cool"
Posts: 10,151
Quote:
Originally Posted by FramerKid View Post
not landing much work lately?
You will notice that not many here
are willing to pass out engineering advice
to people who don't seem to be very experienced,
as we can't see their situation, and have no
idea what important details might be left out
and what they might misinterpret.
__________________
Put your location in your profile!
(Sorry....it seems there really are dumb questions)
neolitic is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to neolitic For This Useful Post:
Celtic (09-10-2009)
Old 09-10-2009, 08:06 PM   #19
Registered User
Trade: Framer
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by neolitic View Post
You will notice that not many here
are willing to pass out engineering advice
to people who don't seem to be very experienced,
as we can't see their situation, and have no
idea what important details might be left out
and what they might misinterpret.
seemed like he knew what he wanted to do. probably a reason why he came here to ask questions rather than go to his architect/engineer. granted he may have a w6x9 for his center girder with no columns anywhere near his t-connection, but he'll figure that out. i didn't sign anything or provide liability certificates to post on here

plus i'm not trying to help the guy, i'm only contributing to a discussion about how things may get done. if we can't discuss engineering here, what are we to discuss? cellphones?
FramerKid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2009, 08:10 PM   #20
The Duke
 
framerman's Avatar
Trade: Framing, Custom Carpentry, Architectural Design
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 3,783
Blog Entries: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by FramerKid View Post
seemed like he knew what he wanted to do. probably a reason why he came here to ask questions rather than go to his architect/engineer. granted he may have a w6x9 for his center girder with no columns anywhere near his t-connection, but he'll figure that out. i didn't sign anything or provide liability certificates to post on here

plus i'm not trying to help the guy, i'm only contributing to a discussion about how things may get done. if we can't discuss engineering here, what are we to discuss? cellphones?
This is the framing forum, there's no engineering forum for a reason.
__________________
If one advances confidently in the direction of one's dreams,
and endeavors to live the life which one has imagined,
one will meet with a success unexpected in common hours
~Henry David Thoreau
framerman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Makita 5402 16" Beam Saw Austkaine Contractor Swap 4 08-29-2009 11:08 PM
16" on center rafters - blocking 14.5 inches? gussy1971 Construction 38 01-30-2009 06:56 PM
post war drywall 16" x 8' tuff stuff nywoodwizard Drywall 6 03-08-2008 01:11 PM
Why 16" centers TNRocks General Discussion 32 01-21-2008 12:36 AM
16" o.c. georgia dawg Framing 5 04-18-2007 07:41 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:12 AM.


Contractor Talk™ © 2003 - 2009 The Building Network LLC