20' Header Over Garage Door?

 
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Old 02-17-2009, 07:19 AM   #21
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Re: 20' Header Over Garage Door?


I changed my advise before you even posted your response....you do not need an engineer to contruct this building......this is simple building. I would like to think that any one with construction experience would be able to understand this...
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Old 02-17-2009, 07:29 AM   #22
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Re: 20' Header Over Garage Door?


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Originally Posted by bighammer View Post
I changed my advise before you even posted your response....you do not need an engineer to contruct this building......this is simple building. I would like to think that any one with construction experience would be able to understand this...
You said 2x6 would span 20' then you changed to 2x12, where are you coming up with these numbers?

have you consulted a span table?

I am in Florida, things like this require a P.E. or a design professional with appropriatee training to figure, not just a guy with 'construction' experience.
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Old 02-17-2009, 08:01 AM   #23
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Re: 20' Header Over Garage Door?


well "mr. certified", we agree to disagree. I live in Iowa and we do not need to consult engineers on post-to truss buildings. In your advise what good would it be to consult a span table - if an engineer has to stamp the plans, anyway.

I corrected my mistake, 2x6's will not span the load, that would be why I changed my advise.

That is why this forum is so great, everyone can have their own opinion.

Last edited by bighammer; 02-17-2009 at 08:05 AM.
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Old 02-17-2009, 08:06 AM   #24
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Re: 20' Header Over Garage Door?


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Originally Posted by bighammer View Post
well "mr. certified", we agree to disagree. I live in Iowa and we do not need to consult engineers on post-to truss buildings. In your advise what could would it be to consult a span table - if an engineer has to stamp the plans.

I corrected my mistake, 2x6's will not span the load, that would be why I changed my advise.

That is why this forum is so great, everyone can have their own opinion.
Florida has the strictest standards for getting a contractors license of all 50 states, it appears we may also have the strictest standards for construction as well.

What are the standards for licensing in Iowa?

Do you take a test and have to prove experience or do you just buy a contractors license?

Since I already have 2 Certified contractors license, my Certified Plumbing Contractors exam tommorow will only be 9 1/2 hours, while my Certified Building Contractors license exam was 19 hours over a 2 day period.
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Old 02-17-2009, 08:06 AM   #25
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Re: 20' Header Over Garage Door?


Other than right at the ends and center to carry the opener track and spring load, is there any real reason everyone seems to want to construct a solid, heavy beam all the way across this span?

Is it not mainly cosmetic?
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Old 02-17-2009, 08:09 AM   #26
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Re: 20' Header Over Garage Door?


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Originally Posted by Willie T View Post
Other than right at the ends and center to carry the opener track and spring load, is there any real reason everyone seems to want to construct a solid, heavy beam all the way across this span?

Is it not mainly cosmetic?
It has to be able to support its own weight without having too much deflection.

What would you suggest to span a 20' opening?
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Old 02-17-2009, 08:38 AM   #27
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Re: 20' Header Over Garage Door?


I'm waiting on the photos I requested for further consultation.

I span a 16' opening with 2 2x10's with 1/2" plywood glued and nailed/screwed together. This is on the eave side of a building with rafters.

So, ja, I think it won't take much on your gable end. My main concern is how to connect the 2x12's to the truss. And what is the dimension from your header to the bottom of your truss? I would worry about the header flopping in and out as well.

I'm off to get my driver's license, business license, and contractor's license now. This is a marathon 2-week written and oral test and the biatch is that it's given in Norwegian.
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Old 02-17-2009, 08:57 AM   #28
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Re: 20' Header Over Garage Door?


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Originally Posted by bwalley View Post
It has to be able to support its own weight without having too much deflection.

What would you suggest to span a 20' opening?
Well, the question is not "to span a 20' opening", but to span THIS 20' opening. And none of us have seen it.

We ASSUME, but don't know, that it is a single truss... and that it is designed for, and carrying the added weight of the gable face covering. So we're all guessing... and so am I.

Personally, I would drop by my friendly truss manufacturer and (if they felt it was needed), ask them to build another doubler truss I could slide up into place beside this one.

And No, Wally, you do not have to take off any roof sheathing to do this. If the drywall is not in yet (assuming again, that this garage is going to get drywall) all that is necessary is to temporarily remove a few gable braces, and make certain any Simpson metal is out of the way....... then lift it straight up, and slip it over the top of the two end posts. If I'm hearing this layout correctly, we're paralleling all the other trusses.

Then I would box in a light plywood soffit to whatever height I needed to reach the door top.

And if you order a taller door (You're already in the big bucks anyway for a 20' wide door), that might not be a very deep distance at all. The doubled truss would support it with no problem at all... especially since your truss guy built that extra truss with this application in mind.

This is truly not rocket science.
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Old 02-17-2009, 10:44 AM   #29
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Re: 20' Header Over Garage Door?


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Originally Posted by bighammer View Post
The posts are 20' centers, but the trusses are 2' centers, what kind of beam do you have to support the span? I've never heard of a wood structure with spans like that...anyway...

Trusses will have end bearing they are designed to clear span the width of the building....

I have built numerous post to truss buildings. The overhead door that size will require atleast 24" of head room for the track to make its curve. This is a simple question, the load of the trusses are on the sides of the bulding not the ends. This is why we use trusses, right, to clear span openings? Every other truss will support itself, this gable end is not any different.

You could get by using 2"x12" if you wanted, there should be very....very little load on this header....Post-to-Truss buildings are very simple, they should not require a engineer to stamp the plans. With longer spans like that, I sometimes will use engineered lumber or will splice my header, they don't make long sticks of lumber like they used too.

Finally someone understands. The post are not 20 on center I left the gable end open until I figure out garage door situation. But I thought the door only needed a foot of overhead room. Why does the width of the door change that? I can get 2x12x22's to span it.
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Old 02-17-2009, 10:48 AM   #30
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Re: 20' Header Over Garage Door?


header??? gable end???? trusses???? hahahaha

Is the building sheathed? You can frame the header on a gable end it doesnt need any "beam".

....and head room changes with a door over 8 feet tall. It will need 14 inches once the doors height places it in a "commercial" door category. The track sizes change and the radius on the track bend changes on larger doors.

Last edited by mics_54; 02-17-2009 at 10:55 AM.
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Old 02-17-2009, 10:50 AM   #31
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Re: 20' Header Over Garage Door?


I don't see anything so far about ceiling height. I'm assuming 7' high overhead doors, so you'll need 9' ceilings. Do you have 9' high ceilings?
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Old 02-17-2009, 11:22 AM   #32
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Re: 20' Header Over Garage Door?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie T View Post
Well, the question is not "to span a 20' opening", but to span THIS 20' opening. And none of us have seen it.

We ASSUME, but don't know, that it is a single truss... and that it is designed for, and carrying the added weight of the gable face covering. So we're all guessing... and so am I.

Personally, I would drop by my friendly truss manufacturer and (if they felt it was needed), ask them to build another doubler truss I could slide up into place beside this one.

And No, Wally, you do not have to take off any roof sheathing to do this. If the drywall is not in yet (assuming again, that this garage is going to get drywall) all that is necessary is to temporarily remove a few gable braces, and make certain any Simpson metal is out of the way....... then lift it straight up, and slip it over the top of the two end posts. If I'm hearing this layout correctly, we're paralleling all the other trusses.

Then I would box in a light plywood soffit to whatever height I needed to reach the door top.

And if you order a taller door (You're already in the big bucks anyway for a 20' wide door), that might not be a very deep distance at all. The doubled truss would support it with no problem at all... especially since your truss guy built that extra truss with this application in mind.

This is truly not rocket science.
a 20' span is a 20' span, the trusses are bottom bearing and they bear on the side walls.

The only issue here on a 20' span is Defelection.

The trusses do not support the door, they only hang the track from it.

The 20' flitch does not support the truss, the truss again is supported by the sidewalls.

These types of discussions are why a certified design professional or a P.E. need to sign off on these types of jobs.
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Old 02-17-2009, 11:24 AM   #33
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Re: 20' Header Over Garage Door?


Lets start over shall we. Im seeking advice from some fellow remodelers most of who have probably been doing this much longer than I have.(im 25 ). This is my first post framed building. Im wondering if I can run (2) 2x12's 20' across to hold the center garage door track(or whatever its called) It is not load bearing and will be sitting on 6x6's on each end. Enclosed is a picture of what im doing. Those corners are 24' and i will be adding another post on each side to give me a 20's opening. The 2x12's will be attached to the bottom chord of the gable truss(They did not send me gable trusses even though I asked for them so I dont know if that changes anything.) I dont feel this requires the involvment of an engineer(up till last year you didnt need a permit for a pole building in this county) Thanks
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Old 02-17-2009, 11:33 AM   #34
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Re: 20' Header Over Garage Door?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ASIinc. View Post
Lets start over shall we. Im seeking advice from some fellow remodelers most of who have probably been doing this much longer than I have.(im 25 ). This is my first post framed building. Im wondering if I can run (2) 2x12's 20' across to hold the center garage door track(or whatever its called) It is not load bearing and will be sitting on 6x6's on each end. Enclosed is a picture of what im doing. Those corners are 24' and i will be adding another post on each side to give me a 20's opening. The 2x12's will be attached to the bottom chord of the gable truss(They did not send me gable trusses even though I asked for them so I dont know if that changes anything.) I dont feel this requires the involvment of an engineer(up till last year you didnt need a permit for a pole building in this county) Thanks
a 2x12 Flitch beam MAY carry the load (Its own weight) on a 20' span.

I know for certain a 2x12 flitch will span 18'.

Your local lumber company will have the span tables for SYP, they can look it up for you, I can't locate mine, otherwise i would look it up for you.

If the 2x12 flitch with 1/2" plywould will deflect too much, you can use steel in it to help with deflection.

You can a get an operator in a garage with a 8' ceiling with no problem.

If your client wants to save a few dollars, she can go to an 18' door, an 18' door is still pretty wide and will be cheaper than 2 9' doors.
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Old 02-17-2009, 12:06 PM   #35
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Re: 20' Header Over Garage Door?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ASIinc. View Post
Lets start over shall we. Im seeking advice from some fellow remodelers most of who have probably been doing this much longer than I have.(im 25 ). This is my first post framed building. Im wondering if I can run (2) 2x12's 20' across to hold the center garage door track(or whatever its called) It is not load bearing and will be sitting on 6x6's on each end. Enclosed is a picture of what im doing. Those corners are 24' and i will be adding another post on each side to give me a 20's opening. The 2x12's will be attached to the bottom chord of the gable truss(They did not send me gable trusses even though I asked for them so I dont know if that changes anything.) I dont feel this requires the involvment of an engineer(up till last year you didnt need a permit for a pole building in this county) Thanks
Your trusses have nothing to do with the header at all. Your using 6x6's so you can use 3-2x12's with 1/2" plywood in between if you want on a gable end.
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Old 02-17-2009, 12:08 PM   #36
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Re: 20' Header Over Garage Door?


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Your trusses have nothing to do with the header at all. Your using 6x6's so you can use 3-2x12's with 1/2" plywood in between if you want on a gable end.
That will work.
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Old 02-17-2009, 12:39 PM   #37
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Re: 20' Header Over Garage Door?


Guys, zoom the page up to 400%, and see what he has left of that 6 x 6 to sit on, and how it relates to what he is apparently going to use for a gable end.

Got a little of a mismatched in and out thing going here?
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Old 02-17-2009, 12:59 PM   #38
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Re: 20' Header Over Garage Door?


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Guys, zoom the page up to 400%, and see what he has left of that 6 x 6 to sit on, and how it relates to what he is apparently going to use for a gable end.

Got a little of a mismatched in and out thing going here?

Whatever that means but all 6x6's are notched 1.5" . I dont think I can make a triple work. I think Im just gonna do 2 doors. I can have a 9x9' door with 10' s ceiling, right?
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Old 02-17-2009, 01:04 PM   #39
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Re: 20' Header Over Garage Door?


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Whatever that means but all 6x6's are notched 1.5" . I dont think I can make a triple work. I think Im just gonna do 2 doors. I can have a 9x9' door with 10' s ceiling, right?
If the opening is 20' wide, you won't be able to get a 20' wide door in the opening.

A 9' tall door is an oddball size, I would go with a single 18' wide x 8' tall door, with a 1' return on each side, then a 2x12 flitch beam will work.

You need more than 1.5" on each side to support the Flitch beam.
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Old 02-17-2009, 01:14 PM   #40
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Re: 20' Header Over Garage Door?


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Originally Posted by ASIinc. View Post
Whatever that means but all 6x6's are notched 1.5" . I dont think I can make a triple work. I think Im just gonna do 2 doors. I can have a 9x9' door with 10' s ceiling, right?
Why can't you make a triple work? You said you will put 6x6 posts at the 20' mark. We frame our rough openings 3" bigger for 2x garage jambs. Anyway, you run the triple header up against the 6x6's at the 24' direction and run your two 6x6's at the 20' mark underneath the triple 2x12's. Fill in between the 20 6x6's and the 24' 6x6's.
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