Wood Window Questions

stp57

Tomorrow, I am going to attempt to rebuild a couple of wood windows for a HO in Houston, TX. The house is less than 20 yrs old & actually has genuine wood windows in the front of the house only. They actually use glazing putty to secure the glass. The two 86" x 32" garage windows have rotted due to the sprinklers. The bottom rail is gone & a portion of the stiles. I removed the the sash today from both windows. Fortunately, the manufacturer uses vinyl tracks that allowed me to remove them. I am going to whip out my seldom used shop equipment & attempt to mill some new parts. The HO is listing her house in a week so time is not on my side.
If perchance, I am not successful in this endeavor, does anyone here know who might sell a replacement sash? I can't find a manufacturer's name on these windows anywhere & the builder has long since gone out of business.
Steve

stp57

Here are some photos. I don't know why anyone would want to pay big bucks to have yesteryears problems? Though, I think that the wood windows from 50 years ago would not have rotted so quickly?
Steve

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genecarp

you may be able to get a sash from a company like kolby, or hurd, but forget about your time frame, just build it yourself. depending on condition, you may be able to patch the leg bottoms with bondo or minwax hp. and just change the bottom rail

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Big Bob

yep , bondo... don't leave any soft spots for the wdo inspector.

Jason Whipple

Bondo is not the thing to use, and the min-wax system is poor for longevity.

You need to use a product called Abatron. It's made for wood and it's made for sills and other troublesome areas. This product is used a lot in Historic Preservation. A quart size kit should do the trick for two windows and you'll have some left over. This stuff will bring back wood that most would consider to far gone and you won't be dealing with an unhappy customer next year. Most patch products will fail within a year, trust me on this one!

I've linked the wood restoration page above, but check out the whole site. They have mold making epoxies and many other things for restoration work.

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Jason E Whipple, General Manager
Historic House Restoration, Cincinnati, Ohio
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genecarp

yes i agree with jason, abtron makes some great products for wood and concrete restoration, however, if the budget is tight, and the time schedule is an issue, and the customer is selling, bondo is a quick fix.

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Jason Whipple

It takes about three weeks to get it to the east coast since we can't fly chemicals any more. If you use bondo make sure the customer knows it wont last long!

Abatron sends you a "liquid wood" epoxy with this kit. When used according to the directions it will make punky wood hard as steel again, then you apply the filler. You'll love this stuff if you use it properly. If you take short cuts, might just as well save the time and trouble and use the bondo.

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Jason E Whipple, General Manager
Historic House Restoration, Cincinnati, Ohio
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Jason Whipple

After looking at the pic's again you might be able to get away with the pint kit, looks close though. The pint kit is about $70 and the quart kit is just over $100.

If you get the pint you actually get 2 pints of filler and liquid wood. They send you a pint of part A and part B of both wood filler and liquid wood along with a pint of thinner for the epoxy.

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Historic House Restoration, Cincinnati, Ohio
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neolitic

Second that on the Bondo and Minwax!
Thanks for the link.
There is another that's used on boats
and such...GetRot?

Hard drive just blew up last week,
and I've lost 14 years worth of memory.
(Note to self: Never put off buying memory sticks!)

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neolitic

Double cool.
I've got two dealers within
10 miles.

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Tom R

Sounds like ya' got e-zheimers . . .

stp57

I went ahead & made new bottom rails & stiles out of some well dried pressure treated 2x4's & I spliced the stiles into the old ones. I used every tool in my shop except my drill press (I really should have used that too). I'll use the bondo to make my splices look better & I'll have to use it on two of the stiles (I guess that is what they are called?) that are rotted 1/2" up from the bottom rail that hold the glass in. I didn't even consider trying to re-make those frail strips of wood.
Just about half of the glazing putty is loose on these 16 yr old windows. I understand that some people like to have that old window look, but this is ridiculous!
Thanks for all of the great advice.
Steve

Jason Whipple

I gotta ask, please forgive me if I ask too much, but how much do you charge to do that? I only ask because I can take care of all those problems with out rebuilding it for about $600 each. Repaired, re-glazed, repainted, and re-installed. Sills, sashes, and casing!

I'd use about $75 worth of material and a day and a half of labor for each window using my method.

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Historic House Restoration, Cincinnati, Ohio
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stp57

No problem Jason,
I am an all around handyman & I didn't charge any more for these windows than I did for the other home repairs at their house. My rate is $25 an hour. $600 would be sweet, but they would never go for it. I think we would all love to hear about your "method". It sounds fascinating.
Steve

neolitic

Now I'm afraid that if I lose
my pocket planner, I'll
disappear altogether!

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Jason Whipple

Well, I guess my first tip would be stop charging hourly. Learn the value of their alternative (new Windows).

If the frame and sashes are gone to a point, it would cost about $1000.00 per window to replace it with a new construction window. Thats thinking through to the interior work needed as well. In some cases, maybe more.

Explain the value to your customer, do it right , and you both profit.

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Historic House Restoration, Cincinnati, Ohio
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stp57

Hey Jason,
Did you mill your own stiles & rails or have you found a place to purchase them? If so, then you must have to mortise them out yourself? Man, that was hard work for me.
Steve

Jason Whipple

No, I didn't do any of that at all. These were preservation projects. The key there is to not remove and replace as much as possible. Hard to say if it would have worked in your situation with out seeing it myself, but this method can save stuff most people think is impossible. It's one of those things you have to see to believe.

An acquaintance of mine is top in class in Historic Preservation and was the Project Manager for the 1980's Restoration of the Statue of Liberty. He turned me on to it.

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Historic House Restoration, Cincinnati, Ohio
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Dave R

Have any of you used the wood rot repair kit from System Three? I was wondering how it compares with the Abtron kit. Since it's epoxy I thought it would probably be better than bondo.

stp57

These frames were so bad that when I finally did get the windows to raise a little, the panes slid out with the bottom rail. Hopefully, the HO will adjust the sprinklers better this time. Obviously, the wood used in these windows is not as good as what was used in 100 yr old homes.
Steve