Upsidedown Crown Moulding!!

dkillianjr

Hey guys, I am doing some baseboards, doors, trim for a ladie. Well, she told me she would like the crown to look wider on the ceiling then on the wall. So I said ok I will get you some different samples and to make a long story short she asked to maybe put a regular 3 5/8" crown upsidedown to make it wider on the ceiling, I tried to talk her out of it maybe to a little different profile, but she really has her heart set on it Im figuring the painter is gonna think I don't know what I am doin, putting the crown upside down But anyway, I fooled with it a little at the end of the day today, I usually cut crown upsidedown on the angle in the saw, but it didn't seem to work for coping. I am guessing I need to find the spring angle and cut it flat? I have the bosch angle finder so I am sure that will help. Any pointers guys?



Dave

Teetorbilt

The request is not that uncommon and often used on compounds or build-ups. It can change the look of the room. I prefer the 'traditional' but can do it the way that you want it.

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Tom R

First of all, - - explain to her that the reason (most) crown is set at a 38-degree spring angle is so that it 'faces' you at your (standing) eye level.

An exaggerated (aproaching flat to ceiling) crown, - - would be the second standard (of a) 45-degree spring-angle crown.

Most whacky ideas seem fine all the way up until time to sell the place.

Anyways, - - to answer your other question, - - if she's going to insist on having you install the crown upside-down, - - yes, you can cut it on the 'flat', - - you would just need to set the spring-angle on your Bosch at 52-degrees instead of 38, - - and then set your miter and bevel cuts according to what the read-outs tell you. And set it on the saw table with the cove (or ceiling-edge) along the fence.

Keep in mind, too, - - that when installed upside-down, - - now the (on most crowns) cove profile will be on (against) the ceiling instead of the wall.

Even everyday homeowners, - - when they look at it, - - will be cocking their heads, - - they just might not know exactly why . . .

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dkillianjr

Thanks guys, Tom yup I'm gonna mention it to her deffinetly tomorrow, but I am almost positive she will want it upsidedown. I tacked a short peice up on two walls for her one in each direction and she absolutely loves the upside down one To me it looks weird as heck lol. Thats what I thought, just set the spring angle and I'll be set, I was having one of those brain moments this afternoon This ladies bedroom has more trim in it than my whole house!


Thanks, Dave

Tom R

Better stay out of her bedroom if you're gonna get any work done . . .

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neolitic

Once made one of them happy by
planting 1X on the ceiling where
the crown would meet, nailed a plain
¾" cove there and crown below.
Got the extra on the ceiling,
and didn't look quite so weird.

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dkillianjr

I know I know, but thats where I do my best work


Its funny you say that neolitic ,I suggested that same idea to her, but she didn't like it cause it made the crown 3/4" lower


Dave

neolitic

She knows what she wants,
and she wants what she wants

Errrr, that's not a comment
on the bedroom thing!

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cooliron

hey everyone I have ? maybe someone can give me some pointers on how do to this I'm installing 4 inch crown molding and in 1 room it has 3 walls 2 of those walls stop at a hallway,my ? is how do you finish the crown when it stops on a outside corner

In_Mexifornia

Cool;

You need to make a return. Basically a outside corner at 45 degree that returns to the wall.

dkillianjr

Yes she does haha


Dave

Railman

Think about it guys...it's all about perspective. Maybe she spends a lot of time flat on her back in the bedroom!

Joe

neolitic

Yes,Yes!
Pix, we must have pix!

Not the crummy crown,
the customer.

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clampman

Dave,

I would say chances are about 99% that it will be impossible to cope that crown if installed upside down. You will have to miter the inside corners.

http://miterclamp.com/videos/uncopable_crown.wmv

That link is a short video I did that may make it easier to recognise uncopable crown moldings. If you have a high speed connection you may want to look at it.

If you cut a piece square and look at the end grain while the crown is held at the proper spring angle, if any portion of the profile goes down hill, the crown is NOT copable in that section.

If you do work for architects and designers who draw their own trim profiles (or work for people like the lady mentioned) it's important to recognise uncopable crowns off the prints before bidding, or you can loose a lot of money.

regards,
Jim

Railman

Jim,
Good point!

The way I've always explained it is that crowns with sections approaching level, have to be paper thin, as in the bott tips of a std OG crown. But like you pointed out, if it slopes backwards, it's uncopable.

My solution to difficult profiles in the past was to clip back the 1st piece put up in the corner. It ends up looking like a mitered inside corner with a very small square cut. The cope piece only needs to cover 1/8" or so, so that the cope can be less than perfect. How much you clip it, depends on how difficult the profile. Its best to index the wall with two mitered scraps before installing for this technique, so as to know how much the cope covers.

Try it, you'll like it!

Joe

dkillianjr

Thats what I was thinking I will have to ask her on monday


Now those would be some pics to add to my portfolio!


Thanks guys, Good video Clampman, I was also worried about not being able to cope it. It turns out I was JUST able to cope it, a little more angle and it would have been a no go. Mitering would have been a nightmare the walls and ceilings were so messed up.
Railman, Thats sounds like a good tip, Now by clip though what exactly do you mean?

Also, all I have ever used is you normal Stanley coping saw. Both of mine broke today. Is there anything real good you guys have used? I figure that they are all pretty much the same.


Dave

neolitic

Look here....
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...14&cat=1,42884
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=3720
There is life after Stanley.

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clampman

What Railman is talking about is the first piece you put up, you miter, but a little bit long, like 3/16ths. Then your coped piece will sort of work since there is only 3/16ths for the uncopable section to hit on.

That will also get you close enough that you can scribe a line on the first piece up, and cut out a shallow little mortise for the coped piece to fit into.

You can usually get it to look pretty decent if the uncopable section isn't really big. If it's a big cove that comes over and goes downhill, a real sharp skinning knife works well to cut the line.

At any rate it is a PITA, and you got to charge more for that monkeying around.

Cheers,
Jim

dkillianjr

Thanks neo, I guess there is others than stanley those look pretty nice I guess its time for an upgrade.

Thanks clampman, Ok I get it now, thats a neat little trick


Dave