Trim Pricing Question

MHMConstruction

This is my first post - I just found this forum today and it looks right up my alley. I'm a carpenter who just started my own business (LLC) about a year ago, mostly installing cabinets and doing trim (base, doors, window sills/aprons/casing, etc.) and the GC I've been working for has let me bill him by the hour ($20 to start, $35 by the end of the year long project).

Anyway, I am flying BLIND when it comes to bidding jobs by the foot. I'm going to school for my contractor's license/exam, but the book I've got (Walker's Guide to Estimating) is tough for me to translate. I've asked around, and it looks like people are charging anywhere from 35 cents to 50 cents a square foot for base and doors.

My question: can anyone help (like in the other posts) by sharing some general pricing info on this?? I'm in North Central Florida, so I know prices change based on area. But just some kind of general guideline would be great. I don't want to MISS anything (for example, is door hardware included? window sills/aprons? handrails? door casing?)


MANY THANKS for any info,

B.McCarthy
MHM Construction Services, LLC

Toothpick

Unless it's cookie cutter homes, how can you charge by the square foot? This is something I never do, it's always by the piece. X$ per door hung for example and then their may be several variables for doors alone, X$ per lin. ft. of base, shoe, crown, X$ per tread, baluster, skirtboard,and so on and don't forget to count the number of corners, how high the crown is, trim profiles etc. as well.

In short, do you keep records of how much base of a certian profile for example you can get done in a day? If not start tracking because you need to build up that database.

MHMConstruction

Toothpick,

I've never kept records like you talk about - that's a very good idea.

And you're right about charging for trim by the Sq foot, but that's what they do around here for the most part. Usually its .35-.45/sf for base, prehung doors, door casing, and handrails. but all that varies from contractor to contractor, I'm finding out.
Then, for crown, shoe, chair, it's by the linear foot ($1 - $1.50 for crown and chair, I dont' know about shoe)

I guess I need to come up w/ some linear foot rates based on what I'm installing, and go from there.

I'm thinking I liked "By the HOUR" better, but I've got to get out of that thinking

MHM

Greg Di

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behrco

man I just hate foot price jobs. I recently started a thread (and got some good feedback) these florida builders are so " x-price" if you are in the doors and base type homes you can do the sf price and make money slam bamming chances are they'll all be similar in footage. The problem is this so the next house you get instead of say 12 prehungs you have 15 prehungs and 5 pocketdoors and its all cut up into little rooms( hypothetically) I haven't done a house for 50cents a foot in my life. I also am more into let me see the job or plans then I'll tell you what it will cost. Not hey I charge so much a foot. I have some footage prices as a guide . but mostly I just figure how long it will take then multiply it by what I want to make per day or hour. Good luck bud

BrickTricks

MHM - I've been slinging CrChBa&Sh a long time, and I've never seen prices as low as you want to charge! Good Luck! But do yourself a favor and talk to some guys doing it there - see if you can feel out prices for the market your in. You sound like a decent honest person - don't let the builders take advantage of your "nievity"? - wish I coulda spelt that right! -LOL!

MHMConstruction

BrickTricks -

I didn't say that's what I wanted to charge - but it is the 'average' around here. That's for new construction.

I'm just basing my info on 'asking around', to folks in the business here and there. And, to get someone's prices, sometimes all you have to do is call up and say "how much do you charge for....." and you'll get a price list faxed over to you. I have about 10 of these on file from different 'joes' in the area.

Believe me, I wish the going rate were higher. What trips me out is someone working for .35 a SF to run base, hang the doors (prehungs or bifolds), any door casing, handrails AND door hardware. HOW can you make money that way?

Anyway, I guess I'm agreeing with all of you. Which is why I posted this thread - can anyone give me a better guideline for pricing trim?

Many thanks - it's been a long weekend - just got back from contractor school in Tampa, and I don't live anywhere near Tampa. Off to work tomorrow......

MHM

huck

It is the same thing here in Oklahhoma city....I have been complaning about it sence I came out here...for some reason the builders here think they set what you are going to make..I have been wondering if maybe they will let me set what I will pay them to build me a house..LOL

Toothpick

I think this is common everywhere you go. About 8-10 years ago I trimmed for a large production builder and they pretty much told you what they will pay. It seems like the larger the builder you are the more likely you can get away with dictating the prices. I know when a large company hangs that preverbial carrot (30 homes a year to trim out) in front of you it's hard not to pass it up even though you are not in control of setting the prices. If you don't bite there are more guys behind you that probably will. Where as the smaller custom builders around here seem to be willing to pay more because for one they are usually more quality concious and don't have as big a carrot to hang.

MHMConstruction

That's what I'm talking about. I was better off at $20/hour.

I'm thinking I need to get in with a custom builder, or two.

MHM

BrickTricks

OK - Now the total picture is coming together on your situation?! Yes, most definately seek out spec & custom homes! I'm in Baltimore, MD, and surrounding areas - I've never heard of a sq' price?! all I will quote is linear'. When I price a house I figure Crown, Chair, Base, Shoe, Door/Window Casing - whatever pieces of sticks they want nailed down! Currently $3.45 / Linear foot in Balto - is a smoking Price! So when I figure a house I'll get a good solid rough # say 3000' of all stick moldings @ 3.45 - tahts $10,350 - granted - crown takes longer, but shoe - flies! These custom houses average 3-5000 sq' - There is no way in hell you should even consider a house this size at you price of .35 - $1750 bucks?! Not worth getting out of bed!

sanco

Every trade has it's pricing stadegy. I'f you do alot of work, then you are putting most of your time into gettin-r done! So Take a moment and do unit pricing, i.e. hang a door, trim that door, run all base trim and other standing trim per foot, crown, etc. and add that up. Now for some kind of SF number, divide backwards. This is a safe way to go if you can figure manhours against track home design that repeats itself.

Otherwise, don't fret over lookin, at each job with all it's variables and PRICING IT FOR FROFIT

Git R Done

MHMConstruction

Sanco and Brixtricks -

Now that's the kind of answer I was fishing for. Many thanks for sharing w/ me.

Basing trim pricing on square footage just makes no sense.

Back to the drawing board for me, gentlemen. Wish me luck.....

MHM

Krazy Johnni

It just takes a little time and experience to figure out what works for you. One thing I learned over the years is that every contractor is different so price accordingly if things aren't organized properly it can end up costing you a lot of money. Finding a good contractor that will work with you and not against you is the hard part.

ITS

MHM
As you know pricing is diferent everywhere.I personally think your system and tools make you or break you.All builders are different so prices are different.You can make money by the sq. ft.If the builder is good he will have good subs and be organized.
Basic trim-by the sq.ft.(hang pretrimmed 2 1/2 case,window stooles & aprons,3 1/2 base w/ corner blocks provided,1 rod & shelf in closets except 1 - 24" shoe rack in master closet w/single and double hanging.
and trim gar.Now this is a simple track home BASIC TRIM.All paint grade
material.I explain to the builder that I will trim to what he gives me.This does not include fixing the exteriors,cleaning all the mud off floor,custom cutting shelves to fit the unsquare wall.I simply ask the builder if he wants me to fix this now for a fee orfix it later for a fee which usually includes the painters fee also.
Do you work by yourself? You can get more done with a helper,if you can find someone who wants to work LOL.Tell your builder two people can get more done in 1 hr. than 1 person in 2 hrs. but you need to make money off your helper.
In the smaller track stuff I have a basic trim price and anything above that is EXTRA. I Have different prices for different levels of quality the customer wants or expects.simply do they want a chevy luv or a Silverado w/leather.Time is money and they know that.Oh yea pocket doors are definatly extra.
System has alot to do with your success,work smart not hard.One phase at a time such as scatter doors have the helper pull the trim off side while you are getting rigged up to set all the doors,have helper nail corner blocks and start baseing the rooms the doors are set in,after doors up while helper is baseing lay out closets and get parts cut and ripped,also window stuff cut and ripped.I am not trying to tell you how to do your job ,but this works for me.Average 2400 sq.ft. basic trim 1 1/2 to 2 days your out of there and on to the next one without killing yourself.
I hope this helps you,sometimes the acual price may not be where you might want it but getting complete,so the builder can get painting will pay more.Sytem-speed-production w/the quality that particular builder expects (all differ)= more $$$$ in your pocket with time to spend it.

MHMConstruction

ITS,
Many thanks - good advice I will keep.

I do work by myself - I know it holds me back, but finding a good/dependable helper here is not an easy task.



MHM

Hitachi Scott

I'm from Cleveland Ohio area. We get $.50 for simple apartment/condo work here. And custom homes $1.25 + cabinets + railing + crown/chair rail. Although work has come to a complete stop around here right now.

s.smith

I charge both. SF price if the house is a tract home and i know my guys can bust through it quick, and my builders have about 4 to 5 different models each.

LF price with custom jobs.

I tell my builders SF price and then itemize, when i see the plans-for staircases, crown, chair-rail, etc.

You need to talk to local trims guys to see the ballpark. Good luck and God Bless.

obxwood.com

Hi I lived in Destin Florida The panhandle for ten years and found out that you have to stay away from production homes gcs don't pay what its worth. Look at custom homes thats where you will make your money and if you do good work gcs will pay your price and you can make a good living!
Good Luck,
CSM

DUSE

$100.00 to $150.00 a hole. that covers base,caseing, and installing whatever doors.
example= the house I start tomorrow is @3000 sf, it has 60 holes
(door & window opening's) at $100 a hole that $6000
Crown starts at $5 lf
but......
when you get into the Staingrade double dental ,,,, $$$$

And another thing....
When I work I dont have time to chit-chat
if the HO has nothing better to do then watch me all day...
they have 2 choices
Pay me more .Or....
- start trimming a closet