Tongue And Groove Cedar?

Launchpad

So I got a side job where a customer wants all his interior walls and ceilings tongue and groove cedar Im not sure if I should bid ,charge by the linear foot or just charge time + material It's a side job so Im not real sure how to charge any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

King of Crown

any time your not comfortable bidding, do time+material.

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Greg Di

Holy Crap. Does anyone ever read any of the other 32,879,765 posts regarding "How much should I charge for X"?!?!?!?

It doesn't f-in matter what the job is or even what trade it is! Buy a friggin book about running a business for crying out loud!

I feel like the "how much should I charge" police.

This is ridiculous. Nathan, please start a new forum called "How much should I charge" and let every one post in there so we can set up and autoreply because it's the same answer everytime!!!!

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Cole

Are you a professional contractor?

You say side job, this forum is for contracting professionals only.

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joasis

And I am curious what kind of cedar....western, eastern red, white?


I think as a guide to how to charge, you made the case for an hourly rate, plus materials....if the cutomer wants to know pretty close then to how much time is involved....take some of this material and spend a few minutes with it...if it goes to gether well, and it looks like you can get a roll on it, estimate you time from there with a 25% fudge factor...if you think you can do it is 4 days, say 6 or 7, but maybe less...then the customer has a cap at least, and you will loose if it goes easier then expected.....I come across stuff we haven't done from time to time, and i usually try to ask guys I know who have worked with it, more about what to expect..time wise, problem wise....etc. I know what I make, so it is looking at time as opposed to what we charge and coming up with a number. We rarely do T&M.

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Launchpad

Thanks alot really appreciate the input

Launchpad

Nah I work at Mcdonalds


Ya side job ya know like on the side? I work for someone I usually dont bid on jobs.

Cole

No reason to be a smartass.

I was just asking, because we have a lot of homeowner diyers asking for help.

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VA nail bender

How you run it will make a difference in how long it will take. I did a room in a pool cabana in 4" T&G cedar a couple of years ago run horizontally with no corner boards. making the corners line up was time consuming. And then they wanted to paint It!!!
If you're going to run it vertically, you're going to have to work at keeping it all plumb and make sure you don't end up with a 1/2" strip in the corner.
Either way, it's going to be slow, tedious work. T&M is the best way to go.

Bob

VA nail bender

You must be a Giants fan.
but not a Tom Coughlin fan

Go Eagles!!!

dsnAK

I hope your boss knows your doing side work. I hate side work b/c it undervalues what contractors do. I do not want to (and thankfully do not have to) compete with you as you drive the prices down b/c you have and do not charge for overhead, taxes, Workman's comp, licenses, building associations, tools, trucks and shops and INSURANCE. If you do then you are rare (most do not).

The side job in my opinion drives the prices down for the whole industry and gives us a bad rap. I bet if you looked at all unfinished, shoddy and defective work - the majority would be from side jobbers and unlicensed guys - but the licensed guys running legitimate companies take the rap b/c they are the only ones that exist legally and are easy fall guys since the others are supposedly contractors. Keep in mind that I know many legal contractors do poor work as well; but I am willing to bet the farm that most complaints come from the non licensed or taxpaying people who work on the side.

Maybe I should not complain b/c a lot of my work comes from 'correcting' something done incorrectly. Every time I ask a client why they do not have the original guy fix it - they have no answer and never had a contract. So now there paying more than double and contractors get the bad rap anyways - even those the original guys were not even close to being considered professional or contractors.

Greg - you can add this to the auto reply.

dlarrivee

You're right. Side jobs do drive prices down. But I think the home owners need to do alot more homework, and quit complaining when they get screwed. If you hire someone just because they gave you the lowest price, and you didn't check them out and make sure they're licensed make sure they have insurance and ask to see other work they've done, you deserve to get screwed. I just think that H/Os are just as much to blame as guys doing side jobs for pennies.

Cole

DING!!! DING!!!

I think we should have laws against homeowners who hire unlicensed/ undocumented workers.

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dsnAK

I agree that Homeowners carry some burden here - but remember we do in many states have laws that require people conducting work in one's home to be licensed and insured. I hold so-called contractors on a slightly higher level than uneducated HO's who are told that cheap price is the best.

If I had a crew and they were doing side work that competed with me - I would not tolerate that.

I wholeheartedly agree that HO's have responsibility and I never feel sorry for them when they call me. They made a choice and lost money - not my problem. I often have to justify my prices against uninsured workers and I always use that chance to educate HO's and 99% they go with a licensed contractor.

King of Crown

Homeowners can do whatever they want. They will get what they pay for, and that is the beautiful thing of our Capitalistic society.

Are you suggesting a larger policing force? The government telling us one more thing that we can't do?

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747

I would go horizontal. Measuring the wall then dividing into three sections. Cut all the stock same length. Where the sections meet i would cover with some 1 and 1/2 inch wide by a quarter of a inch matching trim stock.. Well thats the way i did my den and it looks awesome. I didn't paint it instead i just left it natural. I would charge materials plus a hourly rate seeing how its a side job. Finally you have to pay close attention to the lines so they don't get off on the other sections. Except on one wall where i hung all the pine on a 45 degree. That was the wall the took some time.

dsnAK

I am not sure who your addressing that to; but I advocate no new laws that dictate what HO's do. I do advocate that laws that are on the books already for contractors and business operators are enforced to a greater extent. With out equal opportunity by enforcing current laws; legal contractors do not work in a true capitalistic model.

Would you advocate for / defend some one working that skirts all of the laws you follow and therefore undercuts your ability to make a living? Personally I think those that do side work ILLEGALLY and those that hire illegal "contractors" deserve each other.

Actually there is no real form of true Capitalism in the US today - most industries are too subsidized or over regulated - the pendulum swings too far in both directions IMO.

The bottom line, for better or worse, is to do work in someones house you have to follow certain laws that cost money. Good or bad that is a fact of life. You can choose to abide by the laws or ignore them - each to your peril. How is that system even close to capitalism?

I do not know how anyone could defend a competitor that undercuts them in price b/c they do not pay taxes, workman's comp or have insurance - to me that is a race to the bottom - no? And I put the majority of the burden on the ones breaking the laws - the illegal carpenters and so called contractors.

King of Crown

I was talking to Cole, and D,

I agree that homeowners who hire contractors who are not liscenced deserve each other. It is Capitalism. It may not be where you are, but it is here. I get calls all the time to fix other guys crap, and what do I do? Charge allot. Those other guys end up in small claims court. The strong survive. I follow a conservative business model, and though I have been in business for just over a year, I have barely started to make money, but that is how it works. I have zero business debt, and now everything is turning to profit. If you are talking about a pendulum I am on the high end, but a small unsubsidized company. The markets must be considerably slower in your guys area, or the people must not be as informed about the benefits of a liscensed contractor. The market I target are people who have no concern for money.

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clampman

I worked in a state where you did not need a license if you were subcontracting from a licensed contractor. I had a crew ranging from 7 to 12 trim and cabinet guys. I never got a license, so I could not legally work for homeowners.

But I did work for homowners once in a while - if the jobs were big enough. I carried 10 mill in liability and had workman's comp for employees.

Why didn't I get licensed - because it was the State's license to extort money out of me. I would have had to pay money into a "homeowner slush fund" that the state would dole out to owners who got taken by con men and contractors (legal or not) who went bankrupt or just stole the homeowners money.

So why would I want to give the state my money to subsidize con men, illegal contractors, and idiots who were getting good jobs at prices that wouldn't even cover material costs? Jobs that I had given bids on?

For the priviledge of spending hours figuring out how much sales tax to charge someone for the value added above my material costs (which I already paid tax on) for an entertainment center? The sales tax laws were so complicated no one could figure them out. But the fine for missing a quarterly filing was x dollars a day, whether you owed them anything or not.

No, I wasnt willing to hire a full time accountant so I could pay to remove all responsibility from the homeowner for finding an HONEST, LEGITIMATE contractor or sub, licensed or not.

I always wrote up a contract with homeowners even though (in that state) the courts were required by law to not accept law suits from unlicensed contractors. You could build a whole house for a homeowner with your own money, and they didn't have to pay you a penny if you were unlicensed.

But I didn't care about that since they came hunting for me in the first place because they wanted me to do the work. Usually they didn't even get any other bids after I gave them a price.

I, on the other hand, set up a payment schedule so that if they quit paying, I had already been paid up and could just leave. In 13 years of doing that I had to pull off a homeowner job exactly zero times. I pulled my entire crew off jobs subbed from licensed GC's at least 3 times during that period.

Licensing is bull****. You can't legislate quality or honesty.

Regards,
Jimc

dsnAK

King - congrats on your new business - I know Mesa as I grew up there and it has always had astronomical growth. I also remember AZ since the late 80's had a very noticeable campaign regarding hiring licensed contractors -very good in my opinion.

I do not have the luxuries of too many 'money throwers clients' but I have found it pretty easy to compete against unlicensed guys and found some quick education to the HO is all that is needed. I definitely do not charge more to repair something but I never charge less b/c I feel bad for the HO either.

We'll always have people undercutting legitimate business - one just has to adapt their techniques to it to succeed.