Need Advice On This Crown Install Challenge!

Richie-C

Besides "call a real carpenter" I was hoping for some advice on installing crown in the attached area. It's almost like a reverse tray.

Some general guidelines would help.

Thanks!

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Richie-C

Browny

You are going to need alot of m&m's!

catalfanoc

All I can say is compound angles and good luck

clampman

Here's the best place and descriptions.

go to compound miter dot com. I can't post links yet.

Good luck.

regards,

jimc

Tom R

Just really a matter of using a transition piece and 'halving' the angles, - - here's a 'mock-up' example of a 'vaulted crown' in a square room . . .

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dayspring

Tom, You've sho got it!

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RowdyRed94

Basically, Tom separated the horizontal from the vertical and handled them independently. The same practices apply in handrail situations.

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Mike Finley

What exactly did you want to know?

Richie-C

Mike,

Well, here is the deal--I have installed plenty of crown, but have never tried to tackle something like the scenario in the photo. My business is primarliy painting, but I offer moulding as one of my services, and I do a decent job--I make no claims to be a master carpenter. Just so happens this job is a doozy!

I spent a considerable amount of time trying to get it to work, but to no avail. Are there any "ballpark" angles I can start with? I am having most trouble with the transition piece.

I was thinking of ending the molding on each wall with a return and forgetting the back wall altogether.

Thanks,

Richie

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Richie-C

Tom R

Alright, - - this is just a guess, - - I'm tryin' to 'see' this in my head (which is pretty piled up with sawdust lately), - - but try somethin' like this . . .

This 'scenario' would be based on the far left corner of the ceiling of your 'pic' . . . going from 'left to right', - - starting with the 'flat ceiling' crown . . .

Right side of 1st (flat ceiling) piece, - - 7 degree miter, 17 degree inside bevel

Left side of 2nd (transition) piece, - - 7 degree miter, - - 17 degree inside bevel

Right side of 2nd (transition) piece, - - 9 degree miter, - - 5 degree outside bevel

Left side of 3rd (rake) piece, - - 9 degree miter, - - 5 degreee outside bevel


The 'tops' of all three pieces meet at a 'point'.


This is just a 'wild guess' off the top of my head, - - but it should hopefully get you close enough to 'fudge' a few numbers, - -

If it helps, - - your welcome, - - if it don't, - - 'shoot' me!!


Edited: to change 'approximate' bevels

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clampman

Tom,

What would you do for the next angle- the outside corner with a steeper pitch running into the shallower 4/12 that he's just finished?

Regards,

jimc

Tom R

Not sure I'm following you, - - outside corner with steeper pitch??

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King of Crown

Richie,
I have run into this problem before, and I personally dont even like to bring the crown into that area. as you can tell, the windows and treatments are not far from the ceiling, and it would cause the area to look smaller than it is.
I would self return the crown before you hit the edge, then personally I would paint the area a different color. turn it into an accent cove. I have done this a couple of times before and it looks really nice.
everyone tries to be tricky with the mitre or think that crown has to wrap completely around the entire room, but it doesnt, especially when it will make the area look really small.

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Real nice guys

Richie-C

You guys are great--thanks so much for the advice--that's what makes this site so great.

Tom--this is exactly what I was looking for--some numbers to get me in the ballpaprk so that I can play around and find some that work best. On my own I was not even come close. It was pretty comical.

King O'Crown--I agree--I actually proposed returning the crown at each end and painting the downward slope of the ceiling the wall color to make it blend in. Customer did not buy-in 100%, but they said they'd think about it --so I'll know more today.

I'll post a follow up with the end result--crown or no crown. Either way--thanks for the advice.

Richie

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Richie-C

clampman

Tom,

Now I see why you don't follow me. I was looking at the wall/ceiling lines and didn't even notice the chandelier. My eyes fooled me and the way I was looking at the walls made it look like a 4/12 dustpan bay bumped out of a 9/12 rake roof.

Doesn't matter anyhow. Richie will have to drop a pendant at the next angle up to the right (continuing in the direction you were going) because the ceiling pitch change will not intersect at the bisection point of the top of the crown molding.

It would look better in any event to die the crown into a drop at that point - provided the rest of the space will be crowned.

Fortunately, I have never run into that design detail before. To me it seems an awkward use of ceiling lines.

Personally, I would do as King suggests and die the crown at the end of the flat ceiling.

regards,

jimc

Mike Finley

It's impossible to look at a picture and throw out angles and miteres and get anything to work for you, unless you are prepared to use a lot of caulk. What you want to do opens up another angle not mentioned here which is called the 'vertical plane' angle. Because of the extra angle doing it by trial an error is compounded by another value to throw everything off, if you got anything even close by trial and error it will be a miracle. But you can actually do what you want easily with simple math, it will require you to measure your angles and use a chart to look up the correct settings, then simply cut the crown and install it.

The advice given by clampman is also where I would send you. Go to www.compoundmiter.com and either order his book "Crown Molding & Trim" or find it locally. I think Home Depot actually carries the book in stock in the molding section. You will find a chapter in it that walks you through exactly what you want to do step by step and includes all the miter charts. Buy the cheap little true angle tool that he refers to, (usually right next to the book) and you will have a perfect crown molding install in that area in no time. Once you understand the steps you can do any compound angled area like that. All you really have there if you turn your picture upside down is a compound catherdral ceiling.

Tom R

That's alright Jim, after your post I kept trying to 'stare and stare' at it, - - thinkin' maybe 'my eyes' were foolin me, LOL

And yes, I agree King's idea sounds good, - - but personally I would prefer to do it all in crown just so I could say "I DID"!!


Richie, - - hope those 'thrown-out-there' numbers even get you close, - - lemme know if you really get 'stuck', - - and I'll try and figure it out 'exact' for you over the weekend, - - I would just need that 'rake angle' and that 'bay' angle. Good Luck!!

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clampman

I got to agree with you Mike - especially since Richie hasn't done transitions before. Hell, I couldn't even figure out what the ceilings and wall did the first time I looked at the picture. Richie could wear out the rungs of his ladder trying to figure it out.

Tom's figures are based on a 4/12 ceiling slope guessed at from a picture. But Richie, even if you get the job done long distance, what good is that for the next job that's even a bit different?

Regards,

jimc

Tom R

I believe I can break this job down into 'easy steps' and 'techniques' that anyone who can do 'normal' crown would easily understand, - - a bare minimum of math, - - and no 'trial and error'.

More like 'barnyard logic'.

Maybe if I get some extra time one day soon I'll write up an 'explo' for everyone.

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Steve Unkie

Kinda wish I had the time to build a mock up and practice.

Steve Unkie.