Jambs And Drywall

UKframer

When you guys fix a jamb or door set into the r/o how much do you worry about the plumb of the jamb in relation to the drywall? I mean I know perfectly plumb is always what you should aim for, but is it better to follow the drywall sometimes so that the casing works well? Obviously I assume this could only work if the drywall was no more than 1/4" out otherwise the door would swing open.
Until now I have only hung the occasional door, but I am in the middle of hanging all the doors for 3 homes, so I am swatting up on the subject.
I have been reading Gary Katzs door hanging book. In the section covering installation of pre-hungs he makes no mention of checking the drywall for plumb. He just tips the unit into the opening and plumbs the casing. Thats not gonna work if the wall is out surely?

quix07

If you cheat the door out to much you will have to worry about what the casement trim will look like against the drywall. I find that i can only cheat the jamb 3/16" past drywall before the trim starts to look out of wack. If thats still to far out of plumb that the door still swings open by itself, cheat be slightly bending one of the pins.

TrimmanVa

First of all remove any sheetrock that hangs over the stud.I take my hammer and scrape it out the way, or if you have a cordless sawzall works well too. Then check your opening to make sure you have enough room for shims on either side of door jams. Then i check my hinge side for level, put level on hinge side stud, this is normally never level. I level this side with shims at hinge location nailing them to stud, making sure you still have room for shims on other side of jam. then i take door off hinges, by removing hinge pins, and set door frame in opening(depending on floor covering in that area you should shim under frame accordingly)push hinge side of frame to the shims and check for level again. If all looks good nail frame to studs through your shims. now set door back on hinges and close door. check reveal between door and doorjam (hingeside)for consistant reveal, somtimes you have to hammer shim in or out in some spots to get this reveal correct. Then check your reveal at the top of door (door to top of jam)shim above jam and nail. then work your way down the other jamside with shims from top to bottom shims at same location as hinge side and at catch nailing through the shims.try and keep jam consistant with sheetrock as much as possable, somtimes in order for door to close correctly you have to cheat it outside the rock a bit, doorcasing will hide this.Cut your shims off and your ready to case. I know there is easier way to set prehung split jam cased doors , but this is my method for solidcore prehung(notcased). I set 8ft solid core doors about 12 mintues a door with this method. hope this helps ya.

JLTrim

^^ Good advice... I try my best to be flush w/ drywall, especially if it is stain-grade trim. I usually prefer to move hinges forward or back and reattach the stop than move the jamb itself, but it's all about splitting differences... If I have a 1/4" gap between the slab and the stop I'll move the jamb 1/8" and the hinge 1/8", or move top of jamb one way 1/8" and the bottom the other way 1/8", etc.

JLTrim

I have had a couple doors set into out-of-plumb walls that moved a little on their own, my fix is to remove a couple hinge pins and beat 'em with a hammer till there's a slight bend in them, then reinstall them. This usually creates enough friction to keep a door in place when it's open. Not the ideal fix, but builders like it better than having to re-frame walls.

TrimmanVa

Yes, split the difference. good advice there.will confuse you at first ,because its a game of opposites when working with a door. youll figure it out by trial and error. Im not big on moving the stops or hinges, it tends to make door shut inside or outside jam, but in worst cases, i will move them. I would rather spend the extra time when i case the door. I will lay my trim on the saw as it lays on the jam/rock. ill shim under the trim as it lays on my saw to make the cut that fits., I back/cut alot of my miters 1/2 degree to a degree as well. I will never shim the casing out from rock. unless its paintgrade and less than an 1/8.

orson

A lot of different opinions and methods here, here's my 1/2 penny....

1. I set the jamb on the hinge side centered on the framing, hopefully flush w/ the drywall on both edges top to bottom.

2. Then I adjust the height of the latch side until the reveal across the top is even and I center the top of the latch side and nail it centered on the framing and drywall, hopefully flush on both sides.

3. Next I shim at the bottom of the latch side leg until I get the reveal right, I hold the shim in place with one hand while I move the bottom of the door(pressed tight against the stop) out and then back in until the top corner of the door becomes flush w/ the top corner of the jamb. Then I hold the shim and jamb in place while I reach back with my third hand for my nailgun.....

This, in my opinion, is the proper way to set a door. Sometimes the jamb sticks past the drywall almost 1/2 inch. This is due to sucky framing. I have about 23 tricks to make the casing look good(or at least ok) in this scenario, although I must admit if it were anything other than a spec house I would be moving walls with a sledge hammer and refastening the plates.

One other option would be to move the top of the latch side jamb past the drywall so the bottom only sticks out half as far.

As far as doors swinging by themselves, I haven't had much problem with this, and I only consider it a problem if it is a bathroom door. Most other doors are either kept open or they are latched when they aren't open.

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orson

What does taking the door off the hinges accomplish? Just wondering cuz I do the same basic things you do up until this point, but I leave the door on the jamb the whole time.

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Cashking63

Wel I take it off cause its one les thing I have to work around. Hard to get to both sides if the dor is there. if you leave it open then it pulls the jamb down. IMHO anywho

orson

Huh, I just hold the jamb in place with one hand with the door swung open while I shoot through the shims, I still don't get it. Are you hanging solid core doors or something that you can't hold the jamb in place while you shoot it?

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TrimmanVa

8ft solid core door.. (i think i said that).. anyhow. its easier to work with door off hinge..

A W Smith

Myself i don't mess with the hinge sets if i can avoid it. But if the jamb is out of plumb at the wall face by 3/8ths inch by all means Split The Difference! 3/16 out on top 3/16 in on bottom, There are too many applications to list where you would use the rule "split the difference" in such an imperfect world to list in this post.

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Torn-Again

I do rehab work in 100 year old houses daily. I don't even know what a plumb wall really looks like. Seriously I run into this problem all the time. As you all know good luck finding any book or video that deals with anything other than perfect, ideal installation conditions.
Many times we end up having to use a block and maul to move the plates on both sides of the jamb opening. A lot of the times this is not an option and in those cases we generally will plane the door jamb as needed to keep it flush with the drywall. Its is all a pain keeping reveals even, spring out, stop flush, floor reveals even..... I just had to chime in because we love to get enraged every time we do one - lol

mmike032

does anyone use split jamb prehung doors, or is it just a fad here.for the past 10 yrs all we have used were perhung except 1 time we went to florida and did a house. how long does it take to set a door like this. i have run into this problem setting exterior doors but not with the split jambs.and they take about 5 minutes to set 1. now proceed with the lashing b/c im sure its coming.

Railman

Around here, it's common to be prehung, one piece jamb, with the casing pre applied ON THE HINGE SIDE. This is the easiest way to set a door that I have seen, & yes I've done it most ways imaginable. One company (Pease) started doing this at least 40+ years ago, & even though they aren't in business anymore, it's real common for other door shops to do the same. Some times, if the casings weren't pre applied (on hinge side), I'd do it on site. The reason it's so easy is that it eliminates most of the prep/measuring work necesary on the opening, unless the DW hangers are real sloppy. Casing/DW corner margins are a snap, & tweaking jambs for a flush door/jamb are easier too, since the margin is estabilshed when you nail the casing to the wall first.

As far as whether to hold door plumb or even margin to existing corners, it's always a judgement call, but I always favor the appearance over being pig headed that it's 100% plumb. I'd say 1/2" out would be my limit, but there are always times when even that rule has to be broken! This works well for hollow core, but the heavier the door the more being plimb becomes an issue, as in 3' leaded doctors office doors...talk about a pain!

This discusion reminds me of when I was a young framer. At that time, we also did all our outside trim. I remember having bricklayers tear off our trim because instead of using story poles off the existing trim, they just plumbed everything from the bottom up! They were bone headed germans, & weren't used to doing venere work over framed walls. Eventually they caught on, but it took a lot of discussions between me, my boss, the builder, & the bricklayer.

The point is that you have to do the best you can at working with what is ahead of you! It's always a balancing act between function, & appearance.

Joe

TrimmanVa

I mentioned in first post about split/jam prehung doors. I've set them a few times, your right very easy and quick to set. "slam bam thank you mam" Ive only been in Va for a yr , this is where ive seen them. In dallas tx where im from we trimmed $5 mil plus homes and allways used solid core door that aren't cased.

orson

TrimmanVa, sorry I missed the part about the doors being solid core, I can definitely see why you take them off the jamb.

As far as split jambs go i'm not a big fan of them. They're fast but you can end up with stops that don't match up to the slab and no good way to fix it. The quality of the mitres in the casing is also much lower than what I normaly do. Having said all that if the builder doesn't care that the final product is inferior, they sure are fast.

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Ruby Construction LLC
Lancaster Kitchen Remodeling
Lancaster Bathroom Remodeling

WilsonRMDL

This seems like the wrong way to do it, but I hand my doors and make sure they close correctly and the reveal is right all the way around. Then I cut jamb extensions if the door sticks past the drywall on one side, or is set in on the other side, so the casing doesnt get twisted or tilted to one side and looks right.

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TrimmanVa

Making sure the door hits stop all the way up and down is a must, as well as the reveal being perfect all the way around, but cutting jam extentions is too much work when you can beat the rock in to get casing to fit , or cut miters as i said in earlier post on this subject.Of course when you beat the rock in make sure you dont go outside where your casing is going to lay, dont want your casing setting inside your sheetrock. marking and cuting with a knife before you beat it in makes this possable.

UKframer

Cheers guys for all the tips. 16 solid core pre-hungs await me tmrw to help hone my skills.