I Might Have A Problem...

JLTrim

A house I trimmed a little over a year ago has developed a water leak. The homeowner thinks a finish nail hit the A/C drain line, and there's water damage to his wood floors, drywall, and trim. Obviously, I'll need to take a look and make sure it was our fault, but if it is, am I responsible for all the damages?

I don't have a contract with the owner, this was a job we did for the GC who built the home, and I assume it's no longer under warranty... so am I still liable or what? If by chance we did hit the line, then shouldn't the A/C company be liable for not installing metal plates there? I've never had this happen so I'm not sure where the fault lies. Thanks in advance.

Royal-T

Thats a rough one buddy. Over a year old, no contract. I would say it is the GC's problem, not yours. Mark it as the one job you should be glad there was no contract. The GC should have had a contract, therefor his problem not yours!

JLTrim

I'm really hoping I'm not liable, money's tight and this is the last thing I need right now... Actually, I have had something similar happen before, but it ended up being a Coke can someone left behind the drywall!

Obviously I didn't end up paying for that one...

A W Smith

All this damage and they are just noticing a leak now? No nail plates? thats between the builder and th AC guy now. How are you to know where you are supposed to place the nails for base if the morons don't plate it? Walk away not your fault. Not your problem.



This reminds me of a time 13 years ago I had a three year re-roofing project in a retirement community of hundreds of ranches. Every once in awhile i would get a call that their new roof was "still leaking". I would go into the attic to see that someone from the service department of the community had stepped on the pvc condensate pan line and broke it and that what was leaking all along. There was about a half dozen of these.

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Al Smith
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JLTrim

Thanks, that's good to hear. This a little off-topic, but can anyone link me to generic contract form? I can change the wording a little to suit my needs, but I don't know enough to write one from scratch.

I've never really needed one before, I just sign the builder's contracts, but lately I'm doing more and more work for homeowners, and I want to be covered in case of problems like this. Plus with builders going out of business left and right, I would like to have my own contract.

Royal-T

You can't use someone else's contract. Figure out your own terms and state them professionally on paper. Save it in you CPU and change them as needed.

A W Smith

I havent had time to look at this thread but a lot of construction forms probably can be found here.

http://www.contractortalk.com/showth...ght=share+form

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Al Smith
http://www.awsmith.com

JLTrim

Thanks a lot!

wink

i don't know if you will need one for this, i hope not, but i think it's a good idea to start a relationship with an attorney. the one i have will ans any questions i have on contracts, if your in buisness for yourself i think an attorney is a must. even for guys that work for someone else and just do side jobs, it's a good idea. our society has become so law suit happy, you need to protect yourself.well just my 2 cents.

dayspring

AW is right, The GC should have made sure ALL studs with pipe, wire etc running through them were plated. I can't see how anyone would or could point their finger @ the trim guy

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rbsremodeling

I am wondering why the homeowner contacted you and not The GC in the first place???

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Trimcat

I hate to rain on your parade, but it is very possible to shoot a line when it is properly plated. My guys have sure proved that one a few times. They usually do it when they're nailing base. While I preach to them over and over to make sure they hit studs, they don't always and sometimes shoot in the middle of the wall, and high on the base where there could be a pipe that is not plated. There is a plate on the bottom plate, but the pipe is naked from there up.... personally, I think the code should be that the plate should extend up to cover the entire width of the base......

If it does end up being your fault, your general liability insurance should cover it. Mine did on two occassions, and I've had 3 subs now that have had the same thing happen and they were covered by theirs.

I really hope I'm wrong, but I've been down this road several times now.

Good luck.

JLTrim

Only because I have returned to his home before to do lots of extra work, and he has referred me to do jobs for some of his friends, so he knows me fairly well... In fact I'll be there today finishing up a garage storage unit.

JLTrim

This is very true, in fact this was some of the tallest base we've installed in years... (about 10" tall if I remember right!)

Well I'm hoping it's no big deal, but you're right, that's what insurance is for... We'll see what happens today.

Thanks for all the advice guys.

A W Smith

Very True, Plating only covers at most two inches from the subfloor. Even with 3 1/4 base you could shoot a pipe.

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Al Smith
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JLTrim

Phew... turned out to be a stuck A/C drain valve, I'm in the clear. Actually it works out well because I'll be paid to replace baseboard and possibly some damaged door jambs as well.
Thanks again for the advice.

Trimwerx

I've seen more than a few issues with drains being clogged and they blame some carpenter for shooting it. I don't understand why people won't just check for clogs first before deciding its the carpenters fault. Lazy bastards.

clampman

There should be little chance of hitting pipes that are in stud bays, where most plumbers put them - since it's not easy to drill holes in bottom plates right next to a stud. Base should be nailed, even through the bottom plates at stud locations only.

But 15ga round senco nails will go right through approved plumbing plates, and they sometimes don't start leaking for years. So when nailing off base in bathroom common walls, use 16ga or thinner nails and angle them so they will hit any plates on an angle and glance off.

Jim

john5mt

Thats why i use 2" 18ga brads

15 ga is kinda overkill for most of that stuff.

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Trimcat

There may be "little chance of hitting pipes" but when you are trimming hundreds of houses a year and have 60-70 RETARDS with nail guns, trust me, you are going to hit a pipe once in a while.