Heights, Openinngs, Blocking, Etc.

KentWhitten

I've been meaning to post this for awhile and Wallmaxx's reply in the framing section reminded me to do so.

I would like to see input on many items regarding what you guys like for blocking locations, rough opening sizes, etc. and I know there's going to be some opinions about what everyone prefers for their jobsite. It's difficult for us framers to get a standard when one guy says "83" height on interior doors" and the next guy says "too high"

Best way I figure on things like that is call the trim guy beforehand.

So, for blocking, what and where do you guys lke it?

Towel bars (48"-54" AFF)
TP holders (24" AFF)
chair rail
crown
cabinets (36" and down, 53" and up, top depends on height of cabs)
medicine chests (48" x down, 72" x up)
closet R&S (2x12 @72" and down should do blocking for both)
T-stat (60" AFF)
shower pans(2x8 flat fram is usually good enough)
tubs (above the flange)
curtain blocks
handrail brackets (34" - 38")
rosette blocks
blocking under door and window trimmers and studs for direct connection (inside floor system)
plasma and lcd tv's
blocking on side of king stud and trimmer for pediments or hats w/ caps above windows

Off the top of my head, what I've done for years for RO's

std. int - 82-5/8
bypass - 83-1/8
bifold - 82-1/8 (but depends on full jambs or half jambs)

note: it seems a few like the 83" RO Height. Might be something to give a call to the finish guy for

RO width - +2" (in Maine they like to see 2½ for hinge screw protrusion)
dbl w/o astragal - +2½
dbl w/ astragal - +3"
3/4" board under the front door

I used to have a finish carpenters biz card years ago that he put all of those dimensions on the back. Pretty smart I thought.

Some commercial I have forgotten since I don't do much. Was the exterior HC doors 81-5/8 high?

All of the ext. entry doors I try to get the RO height from man'f. Just too many different sizes.

Spit it out guys. Tell us where you want it, we'll put it there.

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If you correct your mind, the rest of your life will fall into place ~Lao Tzu

Custom Cabinetry - Portland, Cape Elizabeth, Scarborough, Kennebunkport, Yarmouth, Falmouth, Cumberland, Ogunquit, Maine

Salmon Falls Cabinetry

Warren

Width for doors is nice at plus 2 1/2 (sometimes hinge screws protrude)

Don't forget blocking for stair railings ( use a wide block and c/l of 36")

Exterior doors go with ro from manufacturer and add 3/4 for ht (many contractors have us raise doors 3/4 and it stinks to move header up)

Bi folds vary depending on if they use full jambs or 1/2 jambs this affects ht and wth

We usually frame 6' 8" doors at 82 3/4 but 83 doesnt hurt

Wall to wall vanities width is vanity plus drywall plus 1/4"

continuous blocking in any wall over 10' high (we usually do this at top of header as it results in fewer blocks)

jcalvin

Usually

door width +2.5"
door height 82.5"
blocking: ALWAYS behind ALL cabinetry, completely around all tubs or showers, beside all windows for curtains, towel bars, tp hanger, closet shelving, behind t-stat, at top plate if installing crown, bottom plate for base. If there is any scrap left over after I block all of this, I will double check for anywhere drywall may be terminated without blocking. Dad says I go overboard with the blocking but I like it. Sure makes it nice when I never have to worry about where the stud is for the base to break on, don't have to dig out plastic anchors (that eventually work loose) for towel rods and curtains, and don't have to fool with a stud finder for cabinetry. I even put blocking 16"oc under the bathtubs for the poor soul that has to change the rotted bathroom plywood in 60yrs.


ADDITION:

Do you install blocking between ceiling joists where the wall runs perpendicular to the joists?

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Cal


You hired WHO

Kgmz

I'm the same as jcalvin on the blocking.

But I also am finishing the buildings I am framing, so I know where everything goes and where I want the blocking.

I am normally +2" on the door width openings, door opening heights either 82-1/2 or 83 depending on the flooring.

jcalvin are you talking about ceiling joists with a floor above them or a attic. If it is a floor no blocking, if it is a attic without storage then they get blocking to keep them from rolling. But if there is some storage where there would be some plywood on part of the floor then no blocking as the plywood will stop any rolling.

jcalvin

No, not really any storage, but there is some ties up there to keep the joists from rolling. I am wondering about the blocking purely for the drywall. Kinda split down the middle on this one. On one hand, they hang the ceiling first and the wall drywall supports it. But on the other hand, I like to have all the edge secured firmly.

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Cal


You hired WHO

Sooner Pesek

Framerman and all,

My preferance on all int. door R.O.'s is 83"--let's us set doors 3/8" to 1/2" off floor for capet/ tile/ wood clearance and allows all frame heights to be equal so the casings line up.

Int.door R.O. widths are +2".

Like to see the ext. heights to be 3/4" taller than manufacturers requirement--allows 3/4" board under frame for extra door clearance once finished floor is done. This allows for a rug to be in front of the door so the door doesn't rub on it.

Blocking on each side of window headers starting 3" below header height and extending up. This doesn't concern the trimmers, but makes it easier for the window treatment people to hand the curtain / blind rods.

Sorry, it does concern us if we install a pediment or hat w/ cap above window.

It is always appreciated if there is blocking or extra studs in corners of closets and at 16" o.c. for shelf cleating and such. This is often overlooked in our area and a cleat that is glued and scissor nailed only into drywall could possibly lead to issues due to weight piled on in closet shelves.

1 x 4 or 1 x 6 ribbbon blocking starting at 32" up from tread nosing makes it easier to equally space wall rail brackets ( they look better if equally spaced as opposed to just being at stud locations). Also 2x blocking at 36" cl where horizontal rail meets wall for nailing rosette to wall.

I know that this statement will probably cause some stink as before, but I like to see the stair horses to be installed with a 2x between them and the wall. this leaves 1 1/2" space from tread to wall --- 1/2" for drywall and 3/4" for the skirt board ( carpet hides the remaining 1/4").

As far as blocking for crown, depending on size, I will add needed blocking myself, cut at angles and scewed into top plates.

Anyway, this is getting pretty long and I probably forgot something, but we really appreciate the extras you guys do to make ir easier for the next trade(s) that follow. I try to look forward also to make the next guys job a little easier. I think most of us that appreciated our respective trades and craftsmanship do this.

Sorry for being so long,
Thanks for reading and open to constructive critisism,


Cheers and have fun,
Roger


p.s. I would also like to state that it would be a PRIVELEDGE for us to follow your framing jobs ( I won't list names, but you know who I'm talking about)

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"SKILLED Carpenters aren't CHEAP , CHEAP Carpenters aren't SKILLED " --- saw this on a t-shirt a while back ---

jcalvin

Ditto.

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Cal


You hired WHO

loneframer

Many drywallers in this area don't fasten within 12" of walls. They claim it allows for movement in the joint without failure. It doesnt bother me as long as it is warranted.

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"Walking the fine line between production and perfection"



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jcalvin

i guess it helps too in a straight seem.

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Cal


You hired WHO

Sooner Pesek

Bass,


Where R U ?????????

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"SKILLED Carpenters aren't CHEAP , CHEAP Carpenters aren't SKILLED " --- saw this on a t-shirt a while back ---

loneframer

As for blocking, I always try to get a kitchen layout so that cabinet blocking can be done accurately, I hate not having a positive connection and blocking allows for consistant screw placement inside boxes. I always install deadwood on top of interior partitions for backing drywall, even though they are rarely fastened to, it still prevents hangers from pushing ceiling boards up too high. The big blocking issue for me is under door openings. Many framers don't go back and block under kings and jacks which usually leads to settlement. If I don't have a double at least partially under a wall, or jack stud falls between layouts, I will put a double joist block under king and jack. I try not to put double joists directly under walls to allow for mechanicals to be installed. Every joist span gets 1x3 X bridging, at least 1 row if not 2. Railing blocks, TP holders and towel bars get 3/4 plywood rips between studs toenailed with 15 ga. trim gun. Some cases get double 3/4, as for railing blocks. I also "stack" nails while framing to keep areas between studs open to other trades. Many of the other trades are friends of mine and they appreciate the consideration.

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"Walking the fine line between production and perfection"



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KentWhitten

What's the height of TP and towel bars? 24" and 48" respectively?

Forgot the t-stat, thanks calvin

Thanks for the feedback guys.

__________________
If you correct your mind, the rest of your life will fall into place ~Lao Tzu

Custom Cabinetry - Portland, Cape Elizabeth, Scarborough, Kennebunkport, Yarmouth, Falmouth, Cumberland, Ogunquit, Maine

Salmon Falls Cabinetry

KentWhitten

Absolutely. Nice catch.

__________________
If you correct your mind, the rest of your life will fall into place ~Lao Tzu

Custom Cabinetry - Portland, Cape Elizabeth, Scarborough, Kennebunkport, Yarmouth, Falmouth, Cumberland, Ogunquit, Maine

Salmon Falls Cabinetry

loneframer

I like 24" for TP holders, towel bars 48" -54" I usually go 54" if the towel bar is above TP holder. Thermostat I put at 60"+or-. I put in a 12" plywood rip centered at 60". Big screen TVs are really hot too. I put 2' plywood rips between studs centered on AV techs mount height requirements.

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"Walking the fine line between production and perfection"



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loneframer

Window and door heights are usually set at 83" on most of my jobs. ( 2x10 heads with 2x4 cap) I use 1/2 or 5/8 carpet shim under doors which makes it easy to match trim heights with windows.
Some jobs spec 2x12 heads which puts you at 82 1/2 to 82 3/4.
When using conventional lumber for headers, I take the average header height and cut my jacks 1/8 longer than needed to allow for shrinkage and allow the header to sit 1/8 above king stud top. They always come down before I sheath the exterior walls.

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"Walking the fine line between production and perfection"



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loneframer

Framerman, no worries with blocking on this place, every wall both sides gets 5/8 Advantech

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"Walking the fine line between production and perfection"



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nj handyman

loneframer,

doesn't wood shrink on the width rather than the length?

i know some framers that set hangers 1/8" high so when the joists shrink the floor does not squeak.

KentWhitten

That's what I was thinking when you posted that before. That's almost going to be indestructible. Is he using 5/8" rock and plaster too?

I'm guessing you mean set the hanger up 1/8" higher than it's supposed to be so the joist is above slightly where it's theoretically supposed to lay, not leave an 1/8" gap on the bottom of the hanger right? I always put a dab of construction adhesive in the seat of the hanger.

__________________
If you correct your mind, the rest of your life will fall into place ~Lao Tzu

Custom Cabinetry - Portland, Cape Elizabeth, Scarborough, Kennebunkport, Yarmouth, Falmouth, Cumberland, Ogunquit, Maine

Salmon Falls Cabinetry

loneframer

Framerman, 5/8 rock is a definite, not sure of the finish teqnique, but I know he's gonna stand the sheets up to eliminate butts. No butts on the ceilings either! WTF, he's probably gonna ask us to hang it too. So far the only things we didn't do are masonry and cast iron drainwork. We ran the radiant tubing, AC supply ducts and set the recessed light frames. All the outlets get cut into the baseboard trim so I know we'll be roughing in more of the electric. We're also insulating. I've never been this involved in a house before, but I'm thrilled to be working.

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"Walking the fine line between production and perfection"



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loneframer

That's why I let the header sit 1/8 above the kings, so they'll shrink down to match. I usually do hangers at the end of framing project to allow for as much shrinkage as possible. Everything gets 5 toenails before hangers go on. 3 on one side, two on the other.

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"Walking the fine line between production and perfection"



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