hardwood floor and door jambs - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

woodworkbykirk · 02-27-2009, 11:38 PM

so currently im trimming a house virtually by myself supposed to be one other guy with me all the time, also laying the hardwood. anyhow i have all the doors hung and cased, windows cased, almost all closets built just waiting for designs for the walk in closets + some baseboard down where there is tile

anyhow i started laying the hardwood, ive always undercut the jambs and every job ive ever been on the jambs are undercut for hardwood, tile gets cut to the jamb.. anyhow i went ahead and undercut the jambs, my contractor nearly freaks at me today and cant believe that i did this he wanted a 1/8-1/4 " notch taken out of the jambs to allow the hardwod to just tuck under them. i understand having the jambs fully sitting down on the floor to give more strength, so i tried to notch the jambs on 2 doors only to have the jambs shift or crack and the caulking break, even with a saw kerf and sharp chisel so i said the hell with it just undercut. anyhow how is it possible to lock hardwood with the tongue and groove + the endmatch at a doorway when you need space for the piece of hardwood to slide to lock it. some doorways are parrallel to the wood, some at 90 deg others are at 45 degrees,

what is the general opinion on this sorta thing, the house is behind scedule big time, should i take the time to fit the hardwood to the jamb or try to pick up the speed and get it done so the homeowner can have their new house before spring is in full bloom

neolitic · 02-27-2009, 11:47 PM

Does he want all the hardwood
jammed tight to the walls as well?
The doors should be under cut.

catawba · 02-27-2009, 11:57 PM

In my opinion the flooring should go under the jamb and trim (not with the jamb and trim just being notched) but fully under cut.Wood flooring expands and contracts with temp. and humidy changes and can push a jamb out of its place if it's installed in direct contact with the jamb.
As long as no more of the jamb is cut than needed (not 1/8" or 1/4" above the finished floor) .Thats the only way I've ever seen it done.

WarnerConstInc. · 02-27-2009, 11:58 PM

Am I old fashioned and would like to have the floor down then the doors and casing and base and such?

neolitic · 02-28-2009, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarnerConstInc.

Am I old fashioned and would like to have the floor down then the doors and casing and base and such?

Too late for that...

Sooner Pesek · 02-28-2009, 12:01 AM

Kirk,

3 for 3-----Undercutting is the correct way

Roger

cleveman · 02-28-2009, 12:09 AM

Warner is right. First the floors, then the doors.

You are in a socialist country and the worker should trump over the homeowner.

WarnerConstInc. · 02-28-2009, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neolitic

Too late for that...

I was just trying for the next time for him.

I hate undercutting so bad I sold my Crane Saw.

You want hardwood throughout the majority of the house, I'm pulling doors and base and case. If you are paitent you wount have too much fussin' to do when you put it back up.

Of course that gets a bit expensive, especially when a kitchen is involved.

catawba · 02-28-2009, 12:31 AM

To me it depends on wether it's prefished or unfinished (HO's) decision.With prefinished all I want to do is come back and put shoe ,lock sets and door bumpers on when they get through, less traffic. Unfinished floors,I totally agree with Warner.

OW! My thumb · 02-28-2009, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarnerConstInc.

Am I old fashioned and would like to have the floor down then the doors and casing and base and such?

In an ideal world, that would be the way. Doing new work where sometimes the builders put people on top of each other, you just have no choice. I remember setting doors in almost fresh mud one time

. Utterly ridiculous. What do you do?
Most of the time they just want a CO as fast as they can get so they lessen the blow of paying the interest of a construction loan.

Anyway, I have always under cut my doors all the way and slid the hardwood under them. Never heard of (or seen) just notching an 1/8 out. Maybe Im missing something.

AtlRemodeling · 02-28-2009, 07:01 AM

Without a doubt, we always undercut. I would explain to the builder that the notch method will only lead to calls backs if the wood contracts and exposes the notch or expands and shoves the jamb/casing out. No builder wants call backs!

Mitchell Const. · 02-28-2009, 08:20 AM

I always undercut the jambs !

woodworkbykirk · 02-28-2009, 10:10 AM

he was saying that the notch is so that the hardwood looks like the jamb is undercut but by fitting the hardwood to the jamb it "locks" the jamb in place

my argument is that 1) if the door is shimmed and nailed correctly it shouldnt move

2) you need to be able to shift the piece of hardwood so that you can lock the tongue

3) wood expands and contracts, this wont shift the jamb if the wood is tight to it?

he was going on about how never undercut, they fit the tile to it, they dont have a tongue and groove to worry about they just drop it in place and make sure the grout line is even

this is the same contractor that doesnt believe in using shims when setting windows, using a fresh blade on a table saw when doing finish work " the garage is full of smoke when we rip something, and mdf walks up the blade and tilts on 2 or 3 degress because the blade is so bad. wont get rid of garbage, the living room has about 15 garbage bags and 3 piles of garbage in it, and i dont know whats what in the garage the garbage pile is slowly covering the plumbing fixtures

neolitic · 02-28-2009, 10:27 AM

Kirk, don't know how to tell you to
deal with this guy.
just do what you know is right and
make him look better than he is.
It's obvious that he doesn't know
what he's talking about.
Yes, you undercut for the reasons
you stated (expansion.)
I do it for tile too, because that
grout joint is the first to fail.
Good luck with this guy, hope things
pick up enough that you can "fire"
him soon.

Sooner Pesek · 02-28-2009, 11:21 AM

^^^^^^^SECOND THAT!!!!^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Deicide1 · 02-28-2009, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cleveman

Warner is right. First the floors, then the doors.

You are in a socialist country and the worker should trump over the homeowner.

You can't when it's not new construction.

We're laying prefinished 5 1/4'' oak at a house now that had carpet. Had to undercut all jambs.

When you undercut, just make sure to plane the board so that the undercut saw + planed board equal the thickness of the flooring.

Deicide1 · 02-28-2009, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodworkbykirk

he was saying that the notch is so that the hardwood looks like the jamb is undercut but by fitting the hardwood to the jamb it "locks" the jamb in place

my argument is that 1) if the door is shimmed and nailed correctly it shouldnt move

2) you need to be able to shift the piece of hardwood so that you can lock the tongue

3) wood expands and contracts, this wont shift the jamb if the wood is tight to it?

he was going on about how never undercut, they fit the tile to it, they dont have a tongue and groove to worry about they just drop it in place and make sure the grout line is even

this is the same contractor that doesnt believe in using shims when setting windows, using a fresh blade on a table saw when doing finish work " the garage is full of smoke when we rip something, and mdf walks up the blade and tilts on 2 or 3 degress because the blade is so bad. wont get rid of garbage, the living room has about 15 garbage bags and 3 piles of garbage in it, and i dont know whats what in the garage the garbage pile is slowly covering the plumbing fixtures

He hired you and you'll do it the way you're supposed to. Sounds like the guy is a dummy.

Grout joints always fail when next to door jambs.

WarnerConstInc. · 02-28-2009, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deicide1

You can't when it's not new construction.

We're laying prefinished 5 1/4'' oak at a house now that had carpet. Had to undercut all jambs.

When you undercut, just make sure to plane the board so that the undercut saw + planed board equal the thickness of the flooring.

You can if the HO is willing to pay for a top notch job. Most existing homes that I have re-done flooring in wether wood, tile and such, most doors have seen there better days. If I cant get them to pull the doors and jambs, I will under cut not notch. I always pull all the base, I really hate the look of short base and shoe moulding.

basswood · 02-28-2009, 03:13 PM

When floors are to go in after doors are hung (some builders insist on this), I find out the floor thickness and hang the doors up at finished floor height. The floor guy loves it--just slips his floor in... very little jamb cutting... and I don't have to recut doors so they will clear a rug.

Here are a few pics of how I do this (note if the floor is not level the floor guy gets to cut in the floor on the high side, as I hang the jamb legs level):

WarnerConstInc. · 02-28-2009, 03:23 PM

A little extra work but, that sure beats cutting jambs.