Exterior Wainscotting

embe78

ill ttry to explain
on houses that instead of a bay window the whole house juts out in a bay window style (3 sided) they want me to do wainscotting now i hace been told the i can use MDO for the 1x4 but what cany i use for the boxes,regular ogee moulding with exterior paint?
also any idea on pricing for labor im based in ocean county new jersey
thanx

VitoFromNJ

MDO, thats plywood with a paper veneer. Why would you want to use that in an exterior application, or really anywhere for that matter?

Tom R

I could be wrong, - - but I 'think' it's OK to use, - - far as I know, - - it's a resin-impregnated fiber-type paper thats strongly bonded by heat and pressure, and made for outdoor use, - - normally I always hear of it being used mostly for SIGNS, - - but I think it would be OK to use for exterior wainscoting . . .

That being said, though, - - I would do a little 'homework' before I'd actually use it . . .

Myself, - - I've only actually used it for 'indoor' applications because of it perfect smoothness . . .

Although, as far as I know, - - that's what my yard signs are made of, - - and they've been out in the weather for years.

Tom R

Wait a minute, - - I don't get it, - - you mean you want to use MDO as 1 X 4's 'side-by-side', - - and then use a molding for picture frames??

I thought you meant use MDO for the 'flat panels' . . .

Though I believe the 'face' of MDO will hold up fine in the weather, - - there's no way I'd leave any parts of the edges exposed . . .

embe78

right now its bare wood so first ill paper it then put on a sheet of 3/8 MDO so now all surfaces are coverd. now i have to build out to give it the wainscot look so i would use 1x4 MDO strips then use a piece of base cap to give it a nice finish instead of just a flat piece of wood
how does that sound
thanx

Greg Di

MDO is exactly what you should be using for exterior panels. The face IS water resistant and paints beautifully. You cannot and should not leave any edges exposed.

As far as wainsocot goes, I assume you mean T&G. This is normally sold as FJP by me. Both sides are primed, but you need to spot prime the cross cuts.

I assume you will be building face frames. You should use 1xwhatever FJP that sits on top of the MDO panels. You then lay in base cap or panel molding inside the face frames on top of the panel.

If you can, upsell the job to PVC trim boards. There's almost no sense in using wood anymore. I've done $15k of wood trim replacments with PVC in the past two months. Wood will rot. People never maintain wood like they should. PVC does not--ever.

The attached photo is a bay window I recently retrimmed using PVC products. I assume this is the look you are talking about. The previous wood was rotten to hell after only 8 years.

Your post is confusing to say the least. I won't even get into pricing because it's not worth it.

Attached Thumbnails

 

embe78

greg thanx just want to check out a few things 1)do i need to use MDO as my 1x whatever panels or can i use primed finger jointed pine FJP and just use a regular FJP base cap .the builder dosent want to use pvc i tried welcome to where i work
thanx

VitoFromNJ

Builders that I've worked for in the past allways used MDF sheets for the base of exterior recessed panel work and also as a base for interior column work.

The one time that I saw someone using MDO, I walked over and inquired about it. I was told its a good product and holds up to the weather nicely and takes paint just fine.

I picked a piece up and said to myself, its plywood with paper on it! I was sceptical.

What do you guys think, about MDO vs MDF??

Tom R

Hey, Vito

I strongly believe the MDO would fare much better than (regular) MDF, - - but there is also an 'exterior' MDF that would fare at least as good as MDO (and probably better on the edges) . . .

I believe the exterior MDF I speak of is called MEDEX (or something pretty close to that).

Although the MDO facing IS a type of 'paper', - - it is resin-impregnated
and supposedly it's 'bond' is so good it's practically 'chemical'.

Whenever I do exterior wainscoting I use Azek for both frames and panels . . .

Here's a few shots of the front of my house I just did recently (frame and raised-panel) . . .

VitoFromNJ

Tom,

I really appreciate your answer. The MDF that I used in the past was dark brown, and very very smooth to the touch. And the saw dust was fine. Dont know if it was exterior grade, we just called it MDF, but I can tell you that the builder had us prime it with Zinzer after it was up and before we finished it. I would think its probably wise to prime the MDO as well, unless in either case you have painters starting the next day.

I am just trying to keep my self up do date, on whats new, whats out there and what works. Once again I appreciate your input.

I just did a search on Azek. I've heard of Azek before, especially the one piece corners and trim pieces. But what really floored me was the variety of sheet goods in Azek. 3/4X4'X18'!!!, and everything else inbetween.

Lemme ask a question, if you dont mind. I never worked with raised panels, like you've done on your house. (Nice work, but you dont need me to tell you that) Is that Azek stock that you routered to create the panels? I always wondered how to make a raised panel. I figured the only way is with a router.

This is A cool site, I am glad I found it.

Vito

Greg Di

MDO is the background for the panel a la plywood. Use the FJP for the face frames. I pocket screw everything as a unit then hang it. Much better joinery that way.

Tom R

Thanks, Vito, - - yes, they have a large variety of sheet goods, - - but believe it or not, - - on my house project, I went ahead and use 'glued-up' (side-by-side) 1 X 8's, - - the reason being the Azek sheet goods only come in the 'smooth-face' variety, - - whereas the Azek boardstock can be purchased in a 'frontier' variety (with a 'face-grain').

To me, there's no question the 'face-grain' looks much more like real wood, - - not so 'plasticky' like the smooth . . .

And no, - - I didn't use a router. Although I have two shapers (both a 1 1/2 and a 3 horsepower) in my shop, and have 'raised panel bits', - - I chose to make these raised panels with just my cabinet saw, - - I wasn't really too sure how the large bits would have reacted with the composite (they probably would have done more melting than cutting).

To do them on the table saw I merely ran the panels through 'up on edge' with the blade set at the desired angle, - - leaving the top of the blade end 'centered' on the face of the panel (half in and half out) leaving a distinct 'lip'.

Then I 'grooved' the stiles and rails at such a measurement so the panel's depth in them would be tight to the thickness of the bevel at that point.

Azek is a great material and easy to work with, - - but just keep in mind if you choose to use it you may want to make any of your cuts about 1 1/2 times faster than cutting normal wood, - - 'cuz if you cut too slow the cut may be a little 'melty' . . .

Azek can be glued together using their own special glue, - - but PVC glue works also.

Also, - - either install it on the 'hottest' of days, - - or always figure in a way to leave room for expansion . . .

P.S. Sounds like you were probably using regular MDF, - - or someone probably would have 'touted' the fact that it was more expensive, - - I know I always mention it if I paid extra for the better product.

Tom R

Oh, - - and raised panels would normally be made with a shaper, not a router.

A router would be too small and too dangerous to handle for such large size bits.

But here's an example of a quick 'cheater method' to give a fake 'raised panel effect' using a router on MDF . . .

I just made these cabinet doors real quick for a buddy so's he could sell his house . . .

Sorry the pics are a little blurry, - - I'm a better carpenter than I am a photographer, - - at least to hear me tell it . . .



These are made with bits especially for this application (shame ya' can't see more detail in the pic)

Let me know if you need me to locate the source of the bits . . .

RobertF

Was that a special bit or just a generic edging bit used in a plunge router?

__________________
-Robert F

Tom R

Special bit, - - not the exact one I used, - - but here are a few similar for anyone who's interested . . .


http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shops.../bt_groov.html


Most (if not all) 'edging' bits aren't 'bottom-bladed' to do grooving or mortising type operations . . .

Tom R

By the way, - - regular router, - - I've never quite understood the necessity of a plunge router (except for 'under-mounting) . . .

When I want the bit to 'drop in', - - I just 'drop it in' . . .

VitoFromNJ

Gentlemen, the learning never stops... Unless you think you know it all.

embe78

greg thanx the picture was exactly what i was talking about and then the builder wants me to put in a shadow box(picture frame)
thanx for your help guys