Cutting PERFECT Miters?

mattsk8

I just made 38 of the first mitered cabinet doors I've ever made. I have done a lot of trim and basicly my window case and crown miters have always been good. That being said, here's how I generaly set my miter saw (a 10" Makita compound slide LS1013FL model)-

I basicly gave up on the detents of the saw long ago. They're not perfectly accurate no matter how much time you spend adjusting them because if you get it perfect on one side, it will change it on the other side because you cant adjust the base, only the saw. So what I do is get a perfect miter on one side, then flip the board and use the exact same setting to make my other miter. If this makes a perfect 90, I've achieved my perfect miter. Then I'll use my rigid for all my straight cuts.

Where I ran into a problem w/ this is when I had to make the 38 doors w/ mitered cuts. I used the same method to get my miter setting then cut all 152 boards for the doors. Just about all of them were pretty good, but some were a bit wide on the inside and the paint we're using to spray them doesn't fill AT ALL, it almost enhances the joints.

This might sound backwards but if they were getting stained I think the miters would have passed, but w/ the paint we used (cream white then hand glazed) the miters stick out like a fat bloody mutilated thumb! So, to my shame, I had to go through and fill every miter, then paint the doors .

Is there a better trick to getting a perfect miter? I also know the saw blade (or the board you're mitering actually) will tend to 'skate' a teeny bit some times so I also clamped every board prior to making my cuts. I just don't see how the miters could be anything short of perfect w/ this method?!

I appreciate any suggestions!

Leo G

Yes, get an Omga saw for $3K and you will get nice miters.

I do all my perfect miters on the tablesaw. I have a couple of jigs I have mad and tuned up to be within .05º. But the real problem is that wood is rarely straight. And to get the perfect joint it needs to be straight. I invested in the Osborne gauge. It is much better than a regular miter gauge but it still isn't accurate enough to get that elusive perfect miter. I'd like to get three of them, 45 left, 45 right and the variable one. But they are $120 ea, so I have one.

If you make a plywood slider for your tablesaw you can tune it in by using 5" wide pcs that are about 12" long. Short pcs to set it up means no deflection so you can't cheat it by applying pressure. After you get it set in put a bunch of screws in it so it never moves again. Put a hole in it and hang it on the wall. You will likely need a left and a right as you will find that some things are not flippable (moldings).

Good luck.

__________________
Sawdust Follows Me Everywhere

http://lrgwood.com
Custom Cabinets in Hartford County Connecticut

Tom R

The method is good if the board's edge that's riding the fence is perfectly straight and if the blade doesn't veer off. Sometimes it helps to make the cut a hair big and then shave it again to exact size. Another method would be to give it's final edge on a disc sander, which gives a more equalized pressure than a saw blade.

Mitered doors aren't always the best idea to begin with, they're a weak joint (unless you have a Hoffman dovetailing machine), and they're prone to shrink more on the short end of the miter than the long.

mattsk8

Thanks a lot Leo ! I can totaly see what your saying. Not to completely plagiarize your idea, but do you have a pic of it?? The other thing is I bet time wise thats waaaay faster as well!

One other question- How would you have joined the miters? I almost bought the festool domino joiner but just couldn't afford it so I went w/ #20 biscuits. I tested a joint first for strength. Not quite as strong as the typical cabinet joint (which I actually told the customer when I tried to talk them out of mitered doors) but still was stronger than I thought it would be. My only fear is after repeated slamming of the doors the paint on the miter joint might start to crack. I also warned them of this as well.

The one good thing about mitered doors is the sky's the limit on the profile w/out having a custom bit set made. Just depends on what your time is worth!

mattsk8

I actually did make the two cuts like you're saying. Another way to make a strong miter joint (I saw on the show w/ the guy from this old house) is w/ a tenoning jig on a table saw. Would have been an insane amout of time but the miter joints were sweet and solid as a rock after the glue up! I don't have a tenoning jig and even if I did, I didn't get paid enough for that amount of time!!

Tom R

Have you ever checked this out??


http://www.hoffmann-usa.com/htm/mach...o_dovetail.htm

mattsk8

That thing's awesome! Wish I had deeper pockets and a bigger shop!

WarnerConstInc.

Well thanks Leo, you saved me a bunch of typing.
Portable tools are more difficult to achieve 'perfect'
miters and such.

__________________
Warner Remodeling ll Auburn Indiana Remodeling ll Dekalb County Remodeling ll Custom Woodworking Auburn Indiana
Warner Remodeling Facebook

Leo G

I don't have a picture of it Matt.

But it is as simple as it gets. A pc of 1/2" plywood, put a tall board on the trailing edge, this will be the backer and your hand hold. Then put another on the front of the jig. Only this one is only going to be about 6" long and centered on the blade. Then rip some pcs of hardwood. Hard maple is best. Fit them to your miter slot. The should be snug, but easily movable. Put the strips in your miter slots and put the jig over it. Put screws through the jig into the strips, predrill the holes. Now you have the basic sled Now using a speed square or something else that is 45 degrees and apply a board to the jig and screw it down. This will be your 45 fence. Now the fun begins. Make some straight stock, make sure it is straight. Now cut the 45s and flip them to get lefts and rights. Use a stop to get them all the same length. DO your test by putting them together in a square. Is it perfect, I doubt it. Readjust as necessary and keep at it until it is perfect. Then screw that fence down. Go overboard, you don't want it to move if you drop it.

Now you can make the left on the same jig or make a different jig. You have to go through the tuneup just as before, but now you can use one of your perfect pcs to get your starting point. Think ahead. If you want this to have stops on it make sure you design the jig so they can be added on. Make sure the jig is big enough to accommodate the longest pc you will be making. It is a pain in the butt to get it adjusted, but you only have to do it once. Plan on at least 4 hours of time to get it set up.

__________________
Sawdust Follows Me Everywhere

http://lrgwood.com
Custom Cabinets in Hartford County Connecticut

mattsk8

Warnerconstinc, I love your trade, pic and location! I love what I do but I'm more and more not liking people! I just do it like it's for me every time and try to forget the politics while I'm doing it, keeps me sane (for the most part it keeps me sane, my wife might disagree!).

Leo G

Define sane.

I know how to define insane: You keep doing the same thing over and over again. And each time you do it you expect a different result.

__________________
Sawdust Follows Me Everywhere

http://lrgwood.com
Custom Cabinets in Hartford County Connecticut

mics_54

For perfect miters on lip mold or panel mold doors I use a perfect miter sled. Multiple cuts are easy. Clamp stops to the rails... flip from one side to the other.

Gus Dering

I can remember the first time I used a real cabinet saw. Can you?

I had been using a portable saw for a million years and it just felt normal and very familiar. One day a cabinetmaker let me use his Unisaw to make a bunch of cuts and it forever changed my perception about woodworking equipment. There is vibration and bearing run out that can not be avoided with lighter tools and equipment so the elusive perfect cut will stay elusive until you introduce some heavy iron.

So all the advise to move your miters to a heavier saw with bigger and better bearings is great advise. But here is the tool that forever changed my perception about small cross cuts. This thing is just like you took your cabinet saw and mounted it on a swivel. No noticeable vibration at all. That little bit of blade wander as you enter the board, gone. Frames are square. Life is good.



I know the $2500 is a force to be reckoned with. Believe me I understand. But if you set a goal to make decent time and great quality on things of this nature, it should at least be on the short list of long term solutions.

Or you could always buy the doors.

__________________
Every parent who has walked barefoot into their child's room late at night hates Legos

Robie

I use a table saw for miters. I was forever chasing the elusive perfect miter until I came upon this jig by "Niki" (who recently passed away).
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f27/c...ers-45-a-6387/
I made mine almost identical to his, bought the large drafting triangle, had four clamps welded, etc. It was well worth the time and effort. It's the only jig I use for making mitered frames. They come out perfect everytime.
I originally made this because I had to construct a 4-sided mantle shelf. The shelf is 11" wide maple, with 2 ends being about 4' long and the front and back about 7' long. I couldn't figure how to cut 8 perfect cuts on such large stock. This jig solved the problem.

neolitic

If you need to see before you do,
there are several takes on cross-cut
and miter sleds at Fine Woodworking.
Here's one.....
http://www.finewoodworking.com/Works...e.aspx?id=5188

__________________
Put your location in your profile!
(Sorry....it seems there really are dumb questions)

jeffatsquan

QUESTION ?

would a Lyon miter trimmer work in this situation

YesMaam27577

The lion needs to be set up and tuned up just like most other tools for mitering.


I have used my miter saw quite successfully for mitered cabinet doors. But only by using an engineer's triangle to assist with each setup.

mattsk8

Note to self: Always check w/ contractors forum before doing something I haven't done before . Better to use 5 or 10 minutes of your time than 4 hours of mine !

Thanks for all the amazing advice! I'll begin construction of the miter sled asap . I did finaly get a resaw bandsaw, a Hitachi. Slowly building my shop w/out financing! I'm almost to the point where the cabinet saw is my next purchase but I think one before it will be a decent planer. That will open many doors. Either the planer or I was told to skip the planer and just get a drum sander; any advice on that??

After this, Lord willing, a cabinet saw. Then bigger shop. Then come stay w/ one of you guys cuz my wife has had enough of my tool purchases !

WarnerConstInc.

I have used my mft/3 with my ts-55 to miter some really important things before.
I found it to be fairly easy to get near perfect results that way.

__________________
Warner Remodeling ll Auburn Indiana Remodeling ll Dekalb County Remodeling ll Custom Woodworking Auburn Indiana
Warner Remodeling Facebook

mics_54

If you use S1S 4/4 you'll want a planer...drum sander would be nice too.