Crown questions... is there a consensus? - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

El Dorado Wood · 12-14-2006, 04:05 PM

Okay... I definitely have my way of handling these little complications, but I've been told by many people that both ways are right... and both ways are wrong. So... what say you?

Crown on a vaulted/pitched celing:

When you do crown going from a horizontal ceiling line to a raked ceiling line (a vaulted/pitched ceiling) do you "tilt" the crown on the horizontal wall so that the angle matches the crown running down the raked wall, and only do one cut....

Or do you double cut (joint) the corner so it turns the corner and then turns up the rake?

Crown over air registers:

When running crown in a room where the middle of the air registers fall along the bottom line of the crown... do you return the crown on each side of the register?

Or notch and box out the crown so it goes across the register?

How do you do it? And if it's a third way... by all means... speak up.

Toothpick · 12-14-2006, 05:09 PM

I know Opinions and style vary but around here I see and we do is to put a built up type of corner block. I know its kind of the easy way out but it does look quite nice. If I can figure out how to post pictures I'll post one.

As far as the cold air registers are concerned we try to plan ahead as far as crowned areas go. Usually we'll drop the register so that it butts up into the bottom of the crown.

Toothpick · 12-14-2006, 06:17 PM

I think I figured it out. Here's what common for crown on vaulted cielings around here anyways.

Mike Finley · 12-14-2006, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Dorado Wood

Crown on a vaulted/pitched celing:

When you do crown going from a horizontal ceiling line to a raked ceiling line (a vaulted/pitched ceiling) do you "tilt" the crown on the horizontal wall so that the angle matches the crown running down the raked wall, and only do one cut....

I don't even see that as an option. How do you get the profiles to line up? I maybe missing exactly what you are saying but I can't see how that would even work.

The only way I have ever seen it done properly is with a transition piece.

dayspring · 12-14-2006, 08:03 PM

I hate to see those blocks. They scream... I don't know how to do it right!

El Dorado Wood · 12-14-2006, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Finley

I don't even see that as an option. How do you get the profiles to line up? I maybe missing exactly what you are saying but I can't see how that would even work.

Okay... imagine if you will... you're putting crown in one half of a vaulted room. The measurement of the "horizontal" wall is 12' corner to corner. From each corner up the rake to the peak is 10'. If you preassemble a 10'x12'x10' "U" with standard corners... then lift it into place against the ceiling... there's only one "joint" in the corners, however... the spring angle of the horizontal piece is reduced so it will match the rake piece. Not how it's actually installed... but does that make sense?

Toothpick · 12-14-2006, 09:34 PM

Quote:

I hate to see those blocks. They scream... I don't know how to do it right!

Sorry you don't like it, just another option that's common around here.
I know what you mean when you say I don't know how to do it right. I think that every time I see someone use for instance colonial base or casing in built up crown.

Mike Finley · 12-14-2006, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Dorado Wood

Okay... imagine if you will... you're putting crown in one half of a vaulted room. The measurement of the "horizontal" wall is 12' corner to corner. From each corner up the rake to the peak is 10'. If you preassemble a 10'x12'x10' "U" with standard corners... then lift it into place against the ceiling... there's only one "joint" in the corners, however... the spring angle of the horizontal piece is reduced so it will match the rake piece. Not how it's actually installed... but does that make sense?

I can picture what you are saying, I still don't see how the profile of the crown would line up in your corners. Are you talking paint grade and just smacking some caulk on it?

I threw together a quick sketch of it using two identical objects and I can't get the profiles to line up.

El Dorado Wood · 12-14-2006, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Finley

I can picture what you are saying, I still don't see how the profile of the crown would line up in your corners. Are you talking paint grade and just smacking some caulk on it?

I threw together a quick sketch of it using two identical objects and I can't get the profiles to line up.

I'm prolly not 'splaining it well.

Try this... you make up a 1' by 1' corner piece with a normal mitered corner. Then... you hold that piece up to the corner where the rake wall meets the horizontal wall. As you rotate the piece on the rake wall up to the ceiling... the piece on the horizontal wall will... umm... tilt back. What you have now is a perfectly seamed corner, but the spring angles of the two pieces are different.

In order to make it work, you need to plane the back/bottom of the horizontal piece so it doesn't stand out from the wall and create a gap... basically change the spring angle by planing it. Of course... to do it with a transition piece (like you pictured)... you need to plane the top of the crown so it fits properly against the sloped ceiling... you can see the gap created in the pic you posted.

I prefer this method if the isn't a real strong pitch to the ceiling. I hate the look of the transition pieces... they break up the clean lines of the crown. However... if there's a real strong slope to the ceiling, this way looks bad since the horizontal piece has to be tipped so far back it loses it's profile.

Hoping that explains it better.

Mike Finley · 12-14-2006, 11:26 PM

I see what you are saying now. Your crown on the non rake wall ends up being almost flat against the wall.

El Dorado Wood · 12-15-2006, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Finley

I see what you are saying now. Your crown on the non rake wall ends up being almost flat against the wall.

Yep... except... I would say it ends up "flatter" against the wall...

I don't do this on ceilings with rake more than 20 or so degrees past horizontal. Just doesn't look good. In that case... I use a transition piece... or try to talk the HO out of it. He he he.

dayspring · 12-15-2006, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toothpick

Sorry you don't like it, just another option that's common around here.
I know what you mean when you say I don't know how to do it right. I think that every time I see someone use for instance colonial base or casing in built up crown.

Please don't take offense. Before I learned the proper method, I used them, but that is why I used them, just simply hadn't learned better.

If that is what the HO really wants, thats what I'd give them now, but I'd do my best to convince them otherwise.

Mike Finley · 12-15-2006, 10:37 AM

Do you guys ever get into Trim-tex products for architectural details? I'm getting into it more and more. I find myself looking for places to use it on a job site just because it is so cool looking.

Here are a few examples, not my work, but taken from thier website.

troubleseeker · 12-15-2006, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Finley

I don't even see that as an option. How do you get the profiles to line up? I maybe missing exactly what you are saying but I can't see how that would even work.

The only way I have ever seen it done properly is with a transition piece.

Any time I see any type of corner blocks in anything but a victorian style house where they were used sometimes just for another ornate item, it screams "saturday morning home project".

Transition pieces work well, although I think they look better on a reasonably gentle slope as compared to a steep pitch. Tilting the crown is my favorite, but definately the most work. It requires you to recut the flats of the crown so it can sit tight against the walls and ceilings at it's new angle. If the pitch of the vault is steep enough, you might have to use the next size crown for the wall to be able to force the cuts. It takes some trial and error to get the cuts, unless you are a geometry freak.

The register dilema is definately the lesser (only slightly) of two evils to me. I interrupt the crown as you suggest. I never let anyone convince me to run the crown across the grill by notching it.

AdrianRE · 01-04-2007, 08:50 PM

One name, Gary Katz. One website for help on this transition GaryMKatz dot com. He has a great DVD collection. Buy the three of them it runs around $129.00. It gives you great ideas to speed up all aspects. Learning the techniques he offers will improve your style even if your only taking away some of the information and manipulating it to your own style. Best of luck. I bought them and it has helped me.
IMHO.