Crown Info Needed

carver348

Hi guys, just installed my first crown job and not to satisfied with it. None of the coped joints worked out right, bottom to long. Also gaps along the bottom edge of the crown where it meets the wall. The house is very old, not a straight wall and sagging ceilings. Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks, Brian

send_it_all

Sounds like you installed it at a different spring angle than you cut it at...if that makes sense. You should be cutting it upside down on the saw, and with the flats on the back of the crown resting flat on the bed of the saw and the fence at the same time.

What I used to do, before I had crown stops, was to put the crown upside down on the saw as described above then trace a pencil line on the fence of the saw where the top (bottom) of the crown meets it. Then I would measure the distance from the bed of the saw to the pencil line...(The crown I use most often has a measurement of 3-1/8". So I will cut a piece of scrap to this measurement and use it to draw faint marks on the walls 3-1/8" down from the ceiling. I will do this at all corners (both sides) and about every four feet around the room. This process assures that I am installing the crown at exactly the same angle as I am cutting it on the saw. This should make your copes pretty much perfect unless you are doing something else wrong during the coping process. Also make sure that you are removing enough material when you cope so the pieces fit together tightly.


Hope this helped.

stp57

I would keep a sample piece coped right & left in my pocket to check the fit first, so that you that you don't get a surprise when you bend your coped board in. Also, I bet your coping is not under plumb?
Steve

neolitic

All of the above, and likely not
enough back cut on the cope.
The face should be a sharp edge.
Sometimes I'll use a sanding block
or my pocket knife to "tune up"
the back cut.
It's an art, takes time and practice.
Hang in there.

__________________
Put your location in your profile!
(Sorry....it seems there really are dumb questions)

mmike032

dont nail within about 5' of the corner untill you get your other piece up and then roll both pieces untill the cope is a perfect fit.

if you have a 4 wall square room:

cut 2 opposite walls square to square
then cut other 2 walls cope to cope, but cut them about 1/8 to long
nail the center of square pieces so they wont fall and leave ends free
then you can spring coped pieces in place and adjust untill its right


if that makes sense to you.

carver348

Thanks for the advice. As for measuring down the wall to match the spring I did that and when it matched the wall it was off on the ceiling. I also tried holding off on nailing close to the coped ends but still did not line up. Seemed that the top edge pulled away (from the cope) causing about a 1/4" gap. So I had to trim the bottom coped side to match. So far caulk helped but I hate to use it (to cover up). I've been asked to do an install of stain grade crown also an older home but not sure if I feel confident about making it look good.

carver348

One other thing, some of you mention nailing only in the center and then making the fit. But what do you do when you nail and it pulls the joint apart?

toolwiz93

If you do as mentioned, leave the ends loose, and cut your pieces long, the pressure created from this is the same as nailing. Granted you will still need to nail. Just keep a small block of wood as you go and drive the crown up or down as needed. The coped end is critical though, depending on your profile, you really have to back cut the cope. If your cope is right, this method will give tight corners every time.

Railman

Carver,
Are you hand nailing the crown? If so, you may be separating the wall board at the corners. Nail guns are so much easier!

1) You need to maintain the spring angle in the saw by either saw stops, or holding to a line on fence.

2)Make your pieces 1/16 to 1/8 long so that they preload the cope fit.

3)Index/mark room with small tick marks on walls every 5 ft or so, with a clipped (angled top) 1x4, so that the top only touches at the same spot the crown will rest on ceiling. Make a mark (or saw notch) on the edge of the 1x4 representing the height of the marks on your saw fence for crown height. Marking in this fashion eliminates the effect of dry wall mud at ceiling corners making corners out of square. This also works well for built up (3pc etc) crown...much better than chalking lines, since the crown tends to follow the line of the ceiling, rather than featuring the ceiling run out.

4) When you cope crown, make sure you keep the blade parallel to the top/ceiling edge of the crown. If you do this correctly, it will eliminate having to clean up cuts for clearance at crown areas that approach being level.
Most guys tend to over angle the back cut to try to accomplish clearance, but unless you keep the blade parallel to ceiling edge of crown, it doesn't solve the problem completely. 5° to 10° back cut angle is plenty, & keeps the edge from being fragile, & breaking when popping in crown.

5)Tack room up using 2 1/2" brads, making sure not to nail solidly near ends, so that you can roll corners to bring them together. At ends, shoot brads at the hollow part of crown so that rolling crown will simply bend brads, instead of shearing them. Use a 1x4 to tap edges of crown to roll for perfect fit.

Hope this makes sense... If not ask away!
Joe

mmike032

buy a Bosch barrel handle jigsaw for your coping.it will make your life so much easier , and you can cope in a 1/4 of the time. i watch guys struggling all day trying to cope by hand. it makes no sense, i can cope 5 pieces to every 1 they do by hand.

toolwiz93

The Bosch jig saw is great especially when you have an EasyCoper jig. Makes a perfect cope everytime. Do they still make hand coping saws???

carver348

where do you get the easycoper? Also what do you do when the spring angle fits the wall but is still not striking the ceiling right? Should I move the crown up the wall to fit the ceiling? If so this moves the bottom away from my line I measured to line the crown up. I think that my problem might have been nailing (Dewalt cordless 16 ga.) the bottom then making the top fit in effect pulling the top in causing the cope to seem to be long at the bottom. Any ideas?

Thanks, Brian

stp57

Hey Brian,
It sounds like you don't have the angle in the corners right to begin with. If mitered pieces don't fit well in the corners, coping that same angle isn't going to give you much better results.
Steve

Mrmac204

its also possible that the ceiling is not on a level "plane" by that I mean that the ceiling is not flat- goes up and down- I see this quite often particularly at (inside) corners - whomever did the mud work, did a lot, or a little - I've seen variances of over 1/2" in 4' - what do you do? well I just average it, put up the crown, push it up/down a bit so that the joint is still looking good, then caulk the gap later- not a great solution, but short of re-doing the ceiling?
good luck!

Mac!

carver348

MrMac I believe this could be the problem (way off ceiling). It bows and sags all over. So I coped it in as best I could and caulked. But as mentioned earlier I have a stain job coming up and it kinda worries me. Been thinking about making corner blocks to install to save the headache. I made this crown and make other molding also. I have a Williams and Hussey molder that does great. As for the corner blocks what's the size need to be to match 3 5/8" crown? Also how tall should the bottom decreative molding be on the blocks?


stp57: when you refer to the angle in the corners, do you mean that I could be pulling the corners away from each other causing the cope not to fit properly?

stp57

Brian,
I'm just saying that if 2 mitered pieces don't fit well in the corner, then coping off that same mitered angle could be a problem? Like I said before, I like to keep a couple of sample pieces in my pocket to try out on a corner before I cut the final crown. A digital angle finder would be nice, but it is so darn expensive.
Steve