I have to build some cabinets and was going to use poplar but was told it's too unstable for cabinets (mainly the doors I'm assuming?). I'm now thinking maple but this drives the cost a bit further, just curious if anyone has other comments or suggestions about this?
I've never had a problem w/ poplar. That's been my go to for painted doors.
Are you making overlay or inset doors? Overlays should not be any concern at all. Insets ought be ok as well, assuming you're making them with rails and styles w/ floating panels.
If they are going to be slab doors, you could cut them out of mdf and wrap the edges with a 1/2" solid 1x.
Thanks for the quick reply :thumbsup:! They will be overlay but they wont be typical rale and style doors. The detail they want has a round over on it that wont allow for rail and style so I have to miter the rail and styles (never done em before it doesn't look like rocket science). They found the door style at HD.
I could have the bits made for their detail at a machine shop that has made router bits for me though, they just cost like 400$ to have em made. I think I might do this anyhow though cuz it's a neat detail and rail and style would look waaaaay better!
You could use MDF
Very stable, doesn't warp, machines nice and paints extermely well.
I have seen some extremely high end cabinet doors made of this material. And many high end cabinet manufacturers use it for painted exposed ends.
I'm all about it :thumbsup:! How do you finish the cut ends of the MDF though?? Plus, they want ff cabinets so I would have the same problem here. If I make 2" ff's and 2 1/2" rail/ styles, I'll have the rip end of the MDF "fuzzy", know what I mean?
I alread was going to use 1/4" MDF for the center door panels.
MDF for the panel, poplar for stile and rails. You can glue the panel in, the MDF is very stable. It will also keep the poplar in place too... For cut edges and faces of MDF, prime with shellac first. (Zinnser BIN works great) It seals up the fuzzy face allowing you to sand it smooth.
No MDF for face frames, it wont hold up to the abuse. Use poplar again if it's all getting painted.
Thanks again guys. I've never used soft maple before, just concidered poplar because I assumed it was harder and more stable than the maple. That's awesome though because the soft maple is cheaper here as well (or close to the same) :thumbsup:.
When you use the MDF for the sides (I'm assuming that's what you mean), it would be more likely to swell if there was any water wouldn't it (absorbed from a spill or water damage)? Or is it better than a 3/4" birch ply panel?
I use paint grade hard maple on all the face frames and door frames. MDF is reserved for door panels only. C-2 maple ply with an MDF cross band for the exposed case parts.
I don't have anything against soft maple, it is just fine and a little cheaper. But having both species in the shop is difficult to keep separated. If soft maple gets into a clear maple job we will have problems when it ages. They go two different directions in color after the UV light ages them.
I wouldn't use MDF for anything other than the panels. It just doesn't seem right for several small reasons. But thats just me.
I do alot of painted cabinets these days. I'm thinking it's at least 80% paint recently. This combo is working very well for us.
I use paint grade hard maple on all the face frames and door frames. MDF is reserved for door panels only. C-2 maple ply with an MDF cross band for the exposed case parts.
I don't have anything against soft maple, it is just fine and a little cheaper. But having both species in the shop is difficult to keep separated. If soft maple gets into a clear maple job we will have problems when it ages. They go two different directions in color after the UV light ages them.
I wouldn't use MDF for anything other than the panels. It just doesn't seem right for several small reasons. But thats just me.
I do alot of painted cabinets these days. I'm thinking it's at least 80% paint recently. This combo is working very well for us.
Lacquer paint chips easy. It does not hold up well in moist environments. It will show real problems down the road if the housekeeper cleans them with a wet sponge and water based cleaning product.
I'm not sure if it can be back brushed either.
I'm sure it has it's place but not my first choice.
Regular Nitrocellulose lacquer has no place in a kitchen. Step up to a precat or post cat lacquer for a huge improvement in both durability, and water resistance. I keep some post-cat conversion varnish around for those projects that are going to see a lot of abuse.
MDF is fine for a painted panel.
Poplar is not stable enough for a cabinet door of any size. Perhaps a 12"x12".
Maple- whether soft or hard is the standard: stable, easy to machine, easy to paint. Don't sand past 120 for paint.
Other good woods are Birch, Beech, Alder. They all paint well.
Poplar is ok for trim- for FF it's just a little too soft.
I wouldn't use MDF for a door. And you won't find it on any cabinet without a covering. That would be something like a thermofoil door. But not a straight painted MDF door- it won't last, so it can be used for a 1-2 year warranty cabinet. Not much else.
Check out some of the door suppliers locally and on the net. You may find out it is cheaper for you now to order the doors vs making them.
I make a few doors but for a large project I outsource.
i have made a few doors and always use poplar for rails and stiles. i use MDF if there is a raised panel inside or 1/4" birch ply if it's recessed. i have only made paint grade and have not had any problems. i am far from an expert in this field, but so far i have succeeded with these.
also for the face frames i use poplar and pocket screw it together first and then install it on the cab like the demo video for the kreg tool
I was kind of wondering about where all the "stability" comments about poplar were coming from. I have been using it for paint grade for years w/o any issues. One builder I work for has even used it for stain grade and I thought it looked decent when it was done although I had my doubts at the beginning....credit to the finishers,not me.
I think they used a technique called dry brushing to even everything out. I tried to keep the color of the poplar as even as possible but I was still a little concerned. Finishers are my heros :notworthy
If you take a board of any species on the chart I linked, of a given width (say 5 inches), and multiply the width by 64ths you get 320 64ths. Then multiply by the coefficient for a species that provides the amount of movement in width as the wood changes from 14% moisture to 6%.
For Hard Maple this is 320 x .00353 = 1.13 64's of an inch... so about 1/64"
Not much movement, but about 22% more than soft maple or Yellow-poplar.
So that is what all those numbers mean. Looks like Catalpa is uber-stable.
Gus, do you happen to have more photos of those cabinets you did in the center photo... Looking to do something similar in style and could use some inspiration as those cabinets look stellar. Thanks, Vic
Old thread... Since this thread, I've used poplar, MDF and soft maple, and I prefer soft maple for paint. MDF is cheap, but you eat up the savings in finish time. Soft maple is basically perfect wood for paint, a little caution needs to be used watching out for pin holes but they're easy enough to fill.
And I agree, lacquer doesn't hold up in a kitchen.
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