Another Crown Angle Question

daArch

First:
Dammit Jim, I'm a paper hanger, not a Finish Carpenter

Doing a little project at home (my soon to be office) and would like to continue crown around flat ceiling, around inside curve, down slope ceiling and across knee wall (see picture below).

Would love some suggestions on how to transition around radius and how to deal with the 120 degree (approx) between slope and knee wall.

It's a small (1.5" H x 1.25"W) simple basic cheap molding bought at Lowes.

OH, and BTW, I've read the two recent threads about the crown and the base around curves - they help some.




TIA

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Wallcovering Installations by Bill Archibald|paperhanger|Eastern Mass|Greater Boston Area|Dover|Wellesley|Franklin|Sharon|MA

WNYcarpenter

I don't see what's so difficult....the only thing you need is a construction master calc...take the rise, and run of the roof, multiply that by .00985, then take the square root of of the hight of the ceiling off the finished floor, add the two together that will give you the degrees if you cut the crown flat, your most likely your going to need a backing cut so get your calculator back out...arc tan minus the radius of the curved ceiling divided by 2. That gives you the angle needed to rip your crown.

Now that that's settled, you should be able to measure the room and make all your cuts in one trip, nail it, caulk it, paint it!

We run across that from time to time, tricky. The molding you're using with relief cuts may be able to bend around the ceiling. I've been reading some pretty nifty ways to transition around a corner so I'm curious what the folks come up with.

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"I knew I lost my wallet as soon as I threw my pants over the fence". -'lil jarhead bro when asking for a wire transfer...

daArch

Ya had me going for a minute !!

One thought I had was relief cuts, soak in water (no steamer), and bend. The other idea was to cut multiple little pieces, and piece together.

OR howzabout a can of Plastic Wood and form it around the radius to meet the two straight pieces ??

And I'm still in a quandry about the knee wall meeting the sloped ceiling. What's the "normal" way of dealing with that if a crown is wanted?

(no I'm not hovering over the computer, I came down looking for a distraction from sanding)

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Wallcovering Installations by Bill Archibald|paperhanger|Eastern Mass|Greater Boston Area|Dover|Wellesley|Franklin|Sharon|MA

WNYcarpenter

I would run the angled piece first with a plumb cut against the knee wall. Then scribe the horizontal piece to fit. The plumb cut will be a little longer, just chisel, or trim it off flush with the horizontal.

__________________
"I knew I lost my wallet as soon as I threw my pants over the fence". -'lil jarhead bro when asking for a wire transfer...

daArch

Yes WNY (may I call you WNY ? ), I understand that creative cutting will be needed where they meet. What I'm concerned about is because the knee/slope angle is 120 degrees, the crown will not set as it is supposed to. There will be the horizontal "lip" that is supposed to sit against a right angled ceiling. Lots of caulk? Back cut it to match the angle? or just stop fretting about it, it's not for a customer?

Sorry for all the questions, but I don't think I've seen an application like this before. In the rest of the house, "they" just put some rectangular stock to fit - - - kind of. I don't remember ever seeing any molding between knee and slope on any job either.

Finished sanding, now to hunt down where I put that piece of window trim. Obviously put it some place "safe"

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Wallcovering Installations by Bill Archibald|paperhanger|Eastern Mass|Greater Boston Area|Dover|Wellesley|Franklin|Sharon|MA

mmike032

Bottom angle you have to cut a little return piece to go back into kneewall at a 45 then it will match up. top angle I would find angle divide by 2 and thats your 2 cuts. When you cut it bed it on the saw the same way it lays on cieling or it want work.

WNYcarpenter

It sounds like you're using bed molding...anyway, it may take a couple tries to get the angles right, but yeah, for the top to set tight against the ceiling withough a 1/2" of caulk you'll need to back cut the area meant to set flat on a 90* ceiling.

Pretty ambitious undertaking....to be completely honest the original drywall doesn't look that bad. Considering, I would have left the finished corners.

__________________
"I knew I lost my wallet as soon as I threw my pants over the fence". -'lil jarhead bro when asking for a wire transfer...

Tom R

This pic (which you've probably already seen?) is how you would do that 'flat-to-rake' transition at the knee-wall.





As far as that radius at the top, - - I would make my cuts as if it was a regular angle, - - so the cuts would meet normally at the bottom, - - and be cut-off to the radius at the top, - - then make a 'female' pattern (to the male bed molding profile) out of a piece of sheet metal, - - then just hand float the radius with bondo (or similar) after the adjoining pieces are already installed.

daArch

Yes WNY, Bed Molding (sorry, as I said, I ain't no finish carpenter).

Ambitious? yes. The existing corners don't look bad, and I could have made them near perfect. I just like the look of molding. AND I tend to get carried away sometimes, you know how it is, I'm sure.

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Wallcovering Installations by Bill Archibald|paperhanger|Eastern Mass|Greater Boston Area|Dover|Wellesley|Franklin|Sharon|MA

daArch

Thanks Tom R,

Yes, I have seen that picture and it has given me ideas.

Bondo and floating the patterned radius makes me a little nervous, talk about AMBITIOUS !

But it will be seriously considered as a solution

And speaking of Bondo, a customer of mine was talking about it to make wall repairs (I guess Bondo ain't just for Auto repairs anymore).

Is it good for filling nail holes and even gouges ?
And is this the same Bondo we used as teenagers to fix car dents? Or is there a better wood filling product? (When I used to paint, we used putty for nail holes, but it would sink so often)

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Wallcovering Installations by Bill Archibald|paperhanger|Eastern Mass|Greater Boston Area|Dover|Wellesley|Franklin|Sharon|MA

Trimcat

Another way.....

Cope the bottom angle like you normally would. It makes the bottom piece of crown rock away from the wall on the bottom, and flatten out to the wall some but it's really not noticeable. You can counteract that some by rocking all the crown up onto the ceiling a little too. This only works if the ceiling isn't too steep.. not sure what angle it works up to. Looks like yours is similar to this one though.

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Tom R

You can do it that way, - - tweak one up and the other down, - - but it does make somewhat of a mis-match of the profiles. Like you say, - - as long as it's not too much of change in the angle . . .

daArch

TRIMCAT,

Damn, but that looks REAL nice. REAL NICE !!!

I'll see if yours or Tom R's method looks better.

Pictures of final will follow - after filling of gaps and primer.

You guys have really helped


THANKS

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Wallcovering Installations by Bill Archibald|paperhanger|Eastern Mass|Greater Boston Area|Dover|Wellesley|Franklin|Sharon|MA

Trimcat

Here's a closer up view of the two joints in the picture I posted earlier. My camera's not the greatest, but you get the idea. I don't know if you can see it here, but the very bottom piece is pretty flat against the wall..... you don't really notice that though when you see it in real life. It just looks like normal crown. When I said to rock the crown up, I meant all the crown. Cut the crown on the miter saw by turning it upside down (not the flat method), then set your crown stops out farther than how the crown naturally sits. That'll rock all the crown up onto the ceiling a little which will minimize the flattening effect on the lower walls. Don't go too far though because you'll end up with a gap at the ceiling because the crown isn't sitting in it's natural position. Cut ALL the crown at this crown stop position.. Even the bottom wall. Cope as you normally would. The profiles should line up like they do in the pictures......... that's really hard to explain so I drew a little picture here. The 3" and 2 1/2" marks are just for example. You'll have to find your crown's natural seating.

Bed molding should work the same way and I would think would even be easier seeing it's smaller. I've never used it in this application though. Just looking at your picture, I'd say the rounded ceiling joint will be your hardest thing to overcome. That looks pretty nasty. But that too is doable. I personally would set the bed mold up there and mark the ceiling and cut some of that out of there. You could try to scribe the bed mold to it also. Either way will have the same effect when you're through.

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Wood

I no this post is somewhat old but I use the following
compoundmiter.com/crown.html
Not affiliated in any way just think its very usefull