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Salesman duties

8K views 23 replies 10 participants last post by  Grumpy 
#1 ·
I was wondering what duties you give your salesman?

Salaried salesman?

Commission salesman?
Thank you
 
#3 ·
Ok in a perfect world my salesmen would: schedule their own appointments, meet with the customer and spend some time educating them, price the job and do some research on their own time if necessary, close the sale in a manner that is respectful to the customer and within their own comfort zone, make up the material list, buy the permit, stop out at the job when in progres tomake sure things are going smoothly, follow up when the job is done to make sure the customer is happy and collect payment, send a thank you card when the job is done.

In a perfect world...

However it doesn't usually work like that. I find the guys willing to go the extra mile are so locked up tight and in such high demand you're lucky to find them. The rest are lazy spoiled babies. They want to do as little as possible for maximum compensation. Hmmm sounds like a great gig, where do I sign up? I don't ask anything of my sales people I didn't do myself when I was a full time sales rep, before I started my company.

In regards to payment, I personally feel that a sales rep should earn only a commission. However when times are tight, and they aren't earning, they aren't earning. That's a problem for any household. Therefore you may decide to do some kind of draw or advance on future commissions just to keep their billspaid so they don't go looking elsewhere when they hit a hard patch. Hard patches are understandable. It's usually a few weeks, to a month before they start earning when you hire them. They probably need draws. In my business winter is dead for us, so rather than draws I temporarily "lay them off" allowing them to collect unemployment for the winter.

because of all the problems I have had in the past, I am scrapping my model for what my sals reps do and how they are paid and interviewing alot of potential cnadidates for my remaining one open desk. I'm asking them what they can do for me in great detail, and what they expect me to do for them. This is giving me a greater understanding of what my employees expect from me...

Pretty much I don't plan on changing anything, except I might consider offering a draw up to a certain ammount. I truly feel the sales rep's job is more than just the sale, it's managing that customer from the first point of contact all the way to their final satisfaction that we delivered as promised. That's THEIR customer.
 
#4 ·
We pay a salary with commissions if monthly earnings exceed the base. The people we hire could succeed in a commission-only environment, but I doubt we'd find the people we are seeking. With a salary (especially in the current environment) you can be very selective about who you hire from many candidates.
Work is about 1/3 community relations/involvement, with NO sales expected, one third setting up projects, and 1/3 pinning down actual orders. Pure hard rock sales can bring in short term bucks but tends to burn long-range relationships and breeds ill-will.
I find in sales there is a balance between heavy-hitting closers and relationship and marketing focused initiatives. Paradoxically, the less you have to use selling techniques the more effective you are at selling -- in other words, where things are so easy that an 'order taker' can get the business, you are probably in the best position to bring in the orders. The challenge is through your marketing to create that environment (common in good times) even in the recession. Nevertheless, no one is offered a job with us until they prove they can truly close some sales -- we put every finalist through a (paid) final working test to determine that ability.
 
#5 ·
Problem is if you pay a salary, give draws, or any of that... You're screwed if the person can't produce. I used to give draws and lost ALOT of money one year because of it. So I stopped giving draws. A good salesman can make you, a bad one can break you.

I too don't like the hard knock sales, what I call high pressure sales. There are many reasons, but for the purposes of this post, they bring with them too much baggage and cause alot of problems.

You say they are not offered a job until they prove themselves, then you say you pay them to prove it. I am confused. How do they prove it? I'd REALLY like some more info on this as a big problem I have is the hiring of a qualified sales rep.
 
#6 ·
I want to say the only good salesman will want commission only. I have hired a few salespeople and they all sucked except for one the one that didn't suck wanted commission only and he quit to make more money from someone that guaranteed him to make 20k in 3 months with half the money up front.

My last salesperson did great with a $1,000.00 minimum draw a week until the end and then he gave jobs away, ended up 16k in debt to me and about 25k worth of losses.

After that I went and trained up with Phil Rea and became a one call closer over just one weekend.

A full Lion won't hunt!
 
#7 ·
I had a nightmare with 3 sales people last week.

I am the worst person for hiring sales pipe. I hired three sales people last week for my door-to-door and all three are terminated. I think I'll have to hire young, totally inexperienced, and train them for what I want. Experienced sales pipe have always been too high-strung for me. They always talk me into advances, seldom sell one job, and they split. The story about the past week is a long one and I have been very depressed over paying them a guaranteed salary of $100 a day and listening to how great they were, and you probably thought I was a bag of hot air. They are very difficult to work with because I have to spend at least 5 to 10 days training them before I can put them in the streets. When I hire my next sales person, I will definitely not pay one dime for training them, and will not pay nothing until their leather meets the sidewalk. I offered strictly commission with a $100 per day advance or draw. I pay all my current sales plumbers and installers strictly commissions and have written policies they must adhere to, so I have very little problems with commissions. Everything has to be in writing. I even had every detail written for my recent sales people.
 
#8 ·
I had a nightmare with 3 sales people last week.
I am the worst person for hiring sales pipe. I hired three sales people last week for my door-to-door and all three are terminated. I think I'll have to hire young, totally inexperienced, and train them for what I want. Experienced sales pipe have always been too high-strung for me. They always talk me into advances, seldom sell one job, and they split. The story about the past week is a long one and I have been very depressed over paying them a guaranteed salary of $100 a day and listening to how great they were, and you probably thought I was a bag of hot air. They are very difficult to work with because I have to spend at least 5 to 10 days training them before I can put them in the streets. When I hire my next sales person, I will definitely not pay one dime for training them, and will not pay nothing until their leather meets the sidewalk. I offered strictly commission with a $100 per day advance or draw. I pay all my current sales plumbers and installers strictly commissions and have written policies they must adhere to, so I have very little problems with commissions. Everything has to be in writing. I even had every detail written for my recent sales people.

I have watched your posts over the last couple of months - how did these guys get in your shorts? I understand that they may be really hurting with the economy - do you try to hire 3 to end up keeping 1? Just interested. My salesperson just left - had a hard time closing and now I need to hire someone else without a draw

Many thanks for your kind reply.

Terry
 
#9 ·
Grumpy, after screening candidates with an initial (brief) questionnaire and phone interview, we use an online sales test that costs about $40 a piece (you have to buy it in packages of 20 or 25 tests). We share the results with everyone who takes the test (we don't give it to anyone who we don't think has real potential.) Candidates need to score high for prospecting and closing and low for need for direction.
We then treat the candidate almost like a probationary employee, breaking the paid assignment into two pieces -- a prospecting exercise, and an actual selling task. The prospecting exercise tells us if they can understand our way of finding clients; the working assignment emulates a good part of the work they are expected to do. We pay a couple of hundred dollars for successful completion of each part of the process; we don't pay just for trying (though the prospecting test is relatively easy for anyone who made it through the screening process.)
During this process, candidates are invited to our regular teleconference meetings, and a senior rep is always available to help and guide and answer questions.
This model works for us, with a highly (locationally) decentralized business. We need one perhaps two people in each city, and can operate our business in multiple markets/communities simultaneously.
How would you apply it if you were, say, looking for someone to sell contracting services locally?
First, I assume your product/service doesn't require huge amounts of product knowledge and training -- you either expect candidates to know what it is about, or to be able to learn quickly. (Our product doesn't require that much technical knowledge and we can brief candidates quickly on the core principals -- and if they don't pick up the ideas quickly they are too dumb to work with us.)
So,
1. Advertise. Try craigs list. It is a bargain at least in my recent test.
2. Send everyone who sends in a literate application a questionnaire. Ask them to confirm that you will have no trouble validating references, that they are available for a few days working assignment (compensated) and perhaps ask one or two questions to discern their understanding of the work/skills. You might also ask a question about minimum income requirements, and hoped for income goals. (This weeds out people with unrealistic expectations).
3. With the questionnaire, you'll be able to quickly knock out about 75 per cent of the resumes/applications, without worrying about any phone interviews.
4. Phone the candidates who are interesting; listen to them, describe the work, and cross check to see if they are bsing.
5. Administer the online test to anyone you think is good. Forget anyone who doesn't score well.
6. Put them to work on a trial assignment; treat them as a junior rep perhaps, give them a simple route, or ask them to do some telemarketing for leads; your goal is to ascertain measurable success/results.
7. ONLY hire people who actually successfully complete the assignment and sell stuff! This really eliminates the fast talkers who can't deliver, and the ones who say "maybe tomorrow" while drawing your salary etc. You may have to pay a few bucks to people who partly compete the assignment, but the risk of significant financial cost is low.
8. Have every rep sign a proper employment contract giving you clear and rapid severance power. You will need a lawyer familiar with local laws to draw this up, but once you have one contract, you can use it over and over, so your true legal costs are really low.
That's our system. It works. Without stressing, we've quickly cleared more than 150 applications and are now in final testing of two candidates in Washington DC metro area, to restart Washington Construction News. One candidate has already made good progress in completing the working assignment so I expect we will be ready to make an employment offer when I am in DC next Wednesday (but I'm not giving up on the other candidate; she may surprise me with great achievement by Tuesday, and then I have another kind of problem).
Note this is a system. We've tweaked it and evolved it over the past few years, but our success rate on hiring is really great. Everyone we hire sells! (Some flame out or run into problems, but we -- and they -- make money from day one.) We will continue looking and will not hire if we cannot find someone who meets the standards; in one market, this meant we patiently waited almost eight months. But these days, in the economy that is, you won't have too much trouble if you are ready to offer a salary. Just realize that no one is getting that salary unless they would, in fact, be good enough to succeed on commission!
 
#11 · (Edited)
I can do all of this request. Can I make 200K and drive a Ferrari to work?
I would think $200,000.00 is not far off what you could make with good solid leads and lots of them. My salesman last year made $70,000.00 his first year and that was with about the last 4 months of low balling, so I think we lost customers were used to that expected to pay a lot and got the ones that wanted the lowest price and I lost a crap ton of money from free jobs.

I am now the salesman of my company and went and did some training to close over 65% of all my leads and 100% of them on the first call and for way more money than I ever charged.
 
#20 ·
Yes Mike I am scrapping the model, and yes I don't plan on changing anything. How can that be? I might be suprised by someone and wake up when I stop TELLING them how it's going to be and begin ASKING them how they want it. At that point, even though I don't plan on changing things I may make the decision to change. So far I haven't found anyone I felt worth changing for. Besides you've known me for years and should know by now, I am a walking contradiction.

A salesmans job is more than to sell period, end of story... at least in my company. INfact that's why all my internal documents label them as "Estimators". Any salesman who sells and knows nothing else, but to sell, is of little value to me as I need to hire someone else to pick up their slack. Lazy is what I call them. That's why I pay more than the average company, because I expect more from my estimators/salesmen. As I said if you want the extra dollar, you go the extra mile. This is a motto that I live by.

Mike I'll find the people I want. They are out there, and I am not going to do half their job for them nor hire someone to do half their job for them. I'll keep looking and will eventually find them. I'm not looking for typical "sales" people. I'm definetly not looking for closers. They are train wrecks, you are right. I've hired those people, and don't want them working for me or anywhere near or around me. I feel dirty being around those people. They are nothing but stress and head aches. As you said, yes, I'd prefer an order taker. I'd prefer working with two order takers than one salesman any day of the week hands down. Salesmen have the sterotype of being scum bags for a reason. Not all are, but...

I leave you with: Who said ANYTHING about NOT riding their ass? I don't think I ever suggested not managing your employees. However managing and DOING are apples and oranges.
 
#23 ·
Mike I'll find the people I want. They are out there,
All I can say is good luck with that, don't mean to dog you, but I've known your for 5 years and you've been crying the same tune for at least 4 of them. Time for some hard love there Grumpy. You need to stop the bull sh*tting of yourself and face facts.

You'll never find them, cause it doesn't take 4 years to find someone. There is a flaw in your system but you're still in denial.

Also, paying more than anyone else is a HUGE red flag that you've got a major problem.

The sign you want to see is a company that pays people less than average and their employees love working there and don't leave. When a company can only keep people around by financial means that company has a huge problem.

Think about it. ;)
 
#24 ·
Stupid computer restarted on me as I was just about to hit enter. Damnit!

Anyways yes there is a flaw in my system, but I do not think the flaw is what you think it is. For about a year now you will see where I have been posting as I have come to realize that I have a major problem in recruting, interviewing and hiring the proper sales people. That's the flaw in my system.

Those people DO exist. They are out there as I had hired one who was with me for 2 1/2 years until he passed away at the age of 61 from a heart attack, unrelated to work. It took me 5 hires to find hi, he was my 6th. I have hired 4 since, so I figure now I am due. keep in mind many of these hires have been concurrent as it's been my goal to keep at least 2 full time sales reps employed. I'll find more again.

In regards to paying more than my competitors that's just flawed man, flawed. I mean your customers pay you more than the going rate, right? Is that a sign of a problem, or a sign that you are going to do more for them than your competitors? I put together my compensation package before I even hired my first sales rep. It's not based on necessity. It was partially based on the knowledge of what others were charging and knowing what they were expecting, and knowing I expect more, thus those who work for me deserve more.

By the same tolken using your logic, I'd be better off paying my installers less, even though I could pay 20% less than I currently pay and still have ample labor. However at that "going rate" they'd cut corners and do it their way. I want the work done to my standards and since I expect more from my installers, I pay more. See the theme here?

See here, if I offered a salary or draws I'd have no problem retaining my sales reps. However where would that money come from if they wern't selling? That's the conundrum. Why do they deserve to be paid if their job is to sell, but they aren't doing it?

What I have begun doing, and so far is working very very well for me is to take my one roofing repair technician and turn him into a hybrid sales rep /repair tech. He's getting his hours plus a commission for upselling on his repair jobs. I have then hired a 2nd repair tech, who will eventually be trained to upsell as well. I'm still looking for that one dependable full time estimator however.

LOL I laugh when people call looking to fill the sales job. When I ask them how much a roof should cost and they tell me what they've been getting, I ask if they can close a roof at $3 a foot? They can't hang up the phone fast enough. As I have said they want the least ammount of work for the maximum compensation, but don't get me wrong... I can name several companies who were pricing at this time last year what I am pricing now, and infact today came across a competitors proposal that was about $3.75 a foot, so we're not the highest.
 
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