Salesman Duties

 
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Old 02-10-2009, 03:39 PM   #1
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Salesman Duties


I was wondering what duties you give your salesman?

Salaried salesman?

Commission salesman?
Thank you
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Old 02-10-2009, 06:08 PM   #2
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Re: Salesman Duties


Other than permit pulling and building, I can' think of much they are not required to do......

commission.....

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Old 02-11-2009, 07:14 AM   #3
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Re: Salesman Duties


Ok in a perfect world my salesmen would: schedule their own appointments, meet with the customer and spend some time educating them, price the job and do some research on their own time if necessary, close the sale in a manner that is respectful to the customer and within their own comfort zone, make up the material list, buy the permit, stop out at the job when in progres tomake sure things are going smoothly, follow up when the job is done to make sure the customer is happy and collect payment, send a thank you card when the job is done.

In a perfect world...

However it doesn't usually work like that. I find the guys willing to go the extra mile are so locked up tight and in such high demand you're lucky to find them. The rest are lazy spoiled babies. They want to do as little as possible for maximum compensation. Hmmm sounds like a great gig, where do I sign up? I don't ask anything of my sales people I didn't do myself when I was a full time sales rep, before I started my company.

In regards to payment, I personally feel that a sales rep should earn only a commission. However when times are tight, and they aren't earning, they aren't earning. That's a problem for any household. Therefore you may decide to do some kind of draw or advance on future commissions just to keep their billspaid so they don't go looking elsewhere when they hit a hard patch. Hard patches are understandable. It's usually a few weeks, to a month before they start earning when you hire them. They probably need draws. In my business winter is dead for us, so rather than draws I temporarily "lay them off" allowing them to collect unemployment for the winter.

because of all the problems I have had in the past, I am scrapping my model for what my sals reps do and how they are paid and interviewing alot of potential cnadidates for my remaining one open desk. I'm asking them what they can do for me in great detail, and what they expect me to do for them. This is giving me a greater understanding of what my employees expect from me...

Pretty much I don't plan on changing anything, except I might consider offering a draw up to a certain ammount. I truly feel the sales rep's job is more than just the sale, it's managing that customer from the first point of contact all the way to their final satisfaction that we delivered as promised. That's THEIR customer.
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Old 02-11-2009, 08:10 AM   #4
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Re: Salesman Duties


We pay a salary with commissions if monthly earnings exceed the base. The people we hire could succeed in a commission-only environment, but I doubt we'd find the people we are seeking. With a salary (especially in the current environment) you can be very selective about who you hire from many candidates.
Work is about 1/3 community relations/involvement, with NO sales expected, one third setting up projects, and 1/3 pinning down actual orders. Pure hard rock sales can bring in short term bucks but tends to burn long-range relationships and breeds ill-will.
I find in sales there is a balance between heavy-hitting closers and relationship and marketing focused initiatives. Paradoxically, the less you have to use selling techniques the more effective you are at selling -- in other words, where things are so easy that an 'order taker' can get the business, you are probably in the best position to bring in the orders. The challenge is through your marketing to create that environment (common in good times) even in the recession. Nevertheless, no one is offered a job with us until they prove they can truly close some sales -- we put every finalist through a (paid) final working test to determine that ability.
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Old 02-11-2009, 05:07 PM   #5
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Re: Salesman Duties


Problem is if you pay a salary, give draws, or any of that... You're screwed if the person can't produce. I used to give draws and lost ALOT of money one year because of it. So I stopped giving draws. A good salesman can make you, a bad one can break you.

I too don't like the hard knock sales, what I call high pressure sales. There are many reasons, but for the purposes of this post, they bring with them too much baggage and cause alot of problems.

You say they are not offered a job until they prove themselves, then you say you pay them to prove it. I am confused. How do they prove it? I'd REALLY like some more info on this as a big problem I have is the hiring of a qualified sales rep.
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Old 02-12-2009, 02:38 AM   #6
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Re: Salesman Duties


I want to say the only good salesman will want commission only. I have hired a few salespeople and they all sucked except for one the one that didn't suck wanted commission only and he quit to make more money from someone that guaranteed him to make 20k in 3 months with half the money up front.

My last salesperson did great with a $1,000.00 minimum draw a week until the end and then he gave jobs away, ended up 16k in debt to me and about 25k worth of losses.

After that I went and trained up with Phil Rea and became a one call closer over just one weekend.

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Old 02-12-2009, 08:57 AM   #7
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Re: Salesman Duties


I am the worst person for hiring sales pipe. I hired three sales people last week for my door-to-door and all three are terminated. I think I'll have to hire young, totally inexperienced, and train them for what I want. Experienced sales pipe have always been too high-strung for me. They always talk me into advances, seldom sell one job, and they split. The story about the past week is a long one and I have been very depressed over paying them a guaranteed salary of $100 a day and listening to how great they were, and you probably thought I was a bag of hot air. They are very difficult to work with because I have to spend at least 5 to 10 days training them before I can put them in the streets. When I hire my next sales person, I will definitely not pay one dime for training them, and will not pay nothing until their leather meets the sidewalk. I offered strictly commission with a $100 per day advance or draw. I pay all my current sales plumbers and installers strictly commissions and have written policies they must adhere to, so I have very little problems with commissions. Everything has to be in writing. I even had every detail written for my recent sales people.
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Old 02-12-2009, 08:57 PM   #8
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Re: Salesman Duties


I had a nightmare with 3 sales people last week.
I am the worst person for hiring sales pipe. I hired three sales people last week for my door-to-door and all three are terminated. I think I'll have to hire young, totally inexperienced, and train them for what I want. Experienced sales pipe have always been too high-strung for me. They always talk me into advances, seldom sell one job, and they split. The story about the past week is a long one and I have been very depressed over paying them a guaranteed salary of $100 a day and listening to how great they were, and you probably thought I was a bag of hot air. They are very difficult to work with because I have to spend at least 5 to 10 days training them before I can put them in the streets. When I hire my next sales person, I will definitely not pay one dime for training them, and will not pay nothing until their leather meets the sidewalk. I offered strictly commission with a $100 per day advance or draw. I pay all my current sales plumbers and installers strictly commissions and have written policies they must adhere to, so I have very little problems with commissions. Everything has to be in writing. I even had every detail written for my recent sales people.

I have watched your posts over the last couple of months - how did these guys get in your shorts? I understand that they may be really hurting with the economy - do you try to hire 3 to end up keeping 1? Just interested. My salesperson just left - had a hard time closing and now I need to hire someone else without a draw

Many thanks for your kind reply.

Terry
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Old 02-12-2009, 09:49 PM   #9
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Re: Salesman Duties


Grumpy, after screening candidates with an initial (brief) questionnaire and phone interview, we use an online sales test that costs about $40 a piece (you have to buy it in packages of 20 or 25 tests). We share the results with everyone who takes the test (we don't give it to anyone who we don't think has real potential.) Candidates need to score high for prospecting and closing and low for need for direction.
We then treat the candidate almost like a probationary employee, breaking the paid assignment into two pieces -- a prospecting exercise, and an actual selling task. The prospecting exercise tells us if they can understand our way of finding clients; the working assignment emulates a good part of the work they are expected to do. We pay a couple of hundred dollars for successful completion of each part of the process; we don't pay just for trying (though the prospecting test is relatively easy for anyone who made it through the screening process.)
During this process, candidates are invited to our regular teleconference meetings, and a senior rep is always available to help and guide and answer questions.
This model works for us, with a highly (locationally) decentralized business. We need one perhaps two people in each city, and can operate our business in multiple markets/communities simultaneously.
How would you apply it if you were, say, looking for someone to sell contracting services locally?
First, I assume your product/service doesn't require huge amounts of product knowledge and training -- you either expect candidates to know what it is about, or to be able to learn quickly. (Our product doesn't require that much technical knowledge and we can brief candidates quickly on the core principals -- and if they don't pick up the ideas quickly they are too dumb to work with us.)
So,
1. Advertise. Try craigs list. It is a bargain at least in my recent test.
2. Send everyone who sends in a literate application a questionnaire. Ask them to confirm that you will have no trouble validating references, that they are available for a few days working assignment (compensated) and perhaps ask one or two questions to discern their understanding of the work/skills. You might also ask a question about minimum income requirements, and hoped for income goals. (This weeds out people with unrealistic expectations).
3. With the questionnaire, you'll be able to quickly knock out about 75 per cent of the resumes/applications, without worrying about any phone interviews.
4. Phone the candidates who are interesting; listen to them, describe the work, and cross check to see if they are bsing.
5. Administer the online test to anyone you think is good. Forget anyone who doesn't score well.
6. Put them to work on a trial assignment; treat them as a junior rep perhaps, give them a simple route, or ask them to do some telemarketing for leads; your goal is to ascertain measurable success/results.
7. ONLY hire people who actually successfully complete the assignment and sell stuff! This really eliminates the fast talkers who can't deliver, and the ones who say "maybe tomorrow" while drawing your salary etc. You may have to pay a few bucks to people who partly compete the assignment, but the risk of significant financial cost is low.
8. Have every rep sign a proper employment contract giving you clear and rapid severance power. You will need a lawyer familiar with local laws to draw this up, but once you have one contract, you can use it over and over, so your true legal costs are really low.
That's our system. It works. Without stressing, we've quickly cleared more than 150 applications and are now in final testing of two candidates in Washington DC metro area, to restart Washington Construction News. One candidate has already made good progress in completing the working assignment so I expect we will be ready to make an employment offer when I am in DC next Wednesday (but I'm not giving up on the other candidate; she may surprise me with great achievement by Tuesday, and then I have another kind of problem).
Note this is a system. We've tweaked it and evolved it over the past few years, but our success rate on hiring is really great. Everyone we hire sells! (Some flame out or run into problems, but we -- and they -- make money from day one.) We will continue looking and will not hire if we cannot find someone who meets the standards; in one market, this meant we patiently waited almost eight months. But these days, in the economy that is, you won't have too much trouble if you are ready to offer a salary. Just realize that no one is getting that salary unless they would, in fact, be good enough to succeed on commission!
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Old 02-12-2009, 09:58 PM   #10
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Re: Salesman Duties


Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
Ok in a perfect world my salesmen would: schedule their own appointments, meet with the customer and spend some time educating them, price the job and do some research on their own time if necessary, close the sale in a manner that is respectful to the customer and within their own comfort zone, make up the material list, buy the permit, stop out at the job when in progres tomake sure things are going smoothly, follow up when the job is done to make sure the customer is happy and collect payment, send a thank you card when the job is done.

In a perfect world...

However it doesn't usually work like that. I find the guys willing to go the extra mile are so locked up tight and in such high demand you're lucky to find them. The rest are lazy spoiled babies. They want to do as little as possible for maximum compensation. Hmmm sounds like a great gig, where do I sign up? I don't ask anything of my sales people I didn't do myself when I was a full time sales rep, before I started my company.

In regards to payment, I personally feel that a sales rep should earn only a commission. However when times are tight, and they aren't earning, they aren't earning. That's a problem for any household. Therefore you may decide to do some kind of draw or advance on future commissions just to keep their billspaid so they don't go looking elsewhere when they hit a hard patch. Hard patches are understandable. It's usually a few weeks, to a month before they start earning when you hire them. They probably need draws. In my business winter is dead for us, so rather than draws I temporarily "lay them off" allowing them to collect unemployment for the winter.

because of all the problems I have had in the past, I am scrapping my model for what my sals reps do and how they are paid and interviewing alot of potential cnadidates for my remaining one open desk. I'm asking them what they can do for me in great detail, and what they expect me to do for them. This is giving me a greater understanding of what my employees expect from me...

Pretty much I don't plan on changing anything, except I might consider offering a draw up to a certain ammount. I truly feel the sales rep's job is more than just the sale, it's managing that customer from the first point of contact all the way to their final satisfaction that we delivered as promised. That's THEIR customer.

I can do all of this. Can I make 200K and drive a Ferrari to work?
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Old 02-13-2009, 12:06 AM   #11
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Re: Salesman Duties


Quote:
I can do all of this request. Can I make 200K and drive a Ferrari to work?
I would think $200,000.00 is not far off what you could make with good solid leads and lots of them. My salesman last year made $70,000.00 his first year and that was with about the last 4 months of low balling, so I think we lost customers were used to that expected to pay a lot and got the ones that wanted the lowest price and I lost a crap ton of money from free jobs.

I am now the salesman of my company and went and did some training to close over 65% of all my leads and 100% of them on the first call and for way more money than I ever charged.

Last edited by Mr. Mike; 02-13-2009 at 12:08 AM.
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Old 02-13-2009, 09:23 AM   #12
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Re: Salesman Duties


Mr. Mike: what training did you do? Web seminar, DVD etc...
I'm curious to learn what knowledge you gained or if you simply decided to use skills/tactics you already had through a different attitude towards sales.
Thanks
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Old 02-13-2009, 09:38 AM   #13
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Re: Salesman Duties


I went to a seminar from Phil Rea and bought his Cd's while I was there. The 3 day weekend went to my estimate on Monday a changed man and closed 9 of my next 11 estimates on a one call close. Wow I could not believe how much a little training changed my life.
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Old 02-13-2009, 10:29 AM   #14
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Re: Salesman Duties


Quote:
Originally Posted by rbsremodeling View Post
I can do all of this. Can I make 200K and drive a Ferrari to work?
Yes you may if you can close 1.7 mil per year. The ferrari is on you though.
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Old 02-13-2009, 10:38 AM   #15
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Re: Salesman Duties


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Yes you may if you can close 1.7 mil per year. The ferrari is on you though.
What is the average roof/job sale price?
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Old 02-13-2009, 10:59 AM   #16
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Re: Salesman Duties


Quote:
Originally Posted by rbsremodeling View Post
I can do all of this. Can I make 200K and drive a Ferrari to work?
You actually make the point that needs to be said here.

If you're the owner, you're the owner, your salesperson is not the owner, he's a salesperson. If he had the potential to do what you do, he would be doing it and you would be competing against his company instead of him working for you as a salesperson.

Owners need to wake the F up and realize that what they do their sales people won't and stop being so shocked when they keep proving this to you time after time.

Systems are the solution for every facet of your business, from quality control to sales. Systemize your system for dealing with your salespeople, set them up in a system that rewards the traits you want and punishes for the traits you don't want.

The system needs to be monitored and salespeople need to be managed lightly on a daily basis, more robustly on a weekly basis and extremely on a monthly basis.

You aren't going to have any success saying this is what I want you to do, can you do it? Yep,I can. Okay you are hired, go make me a million dollars. That's what too many owners think and act like and then they are shocked it doesn't work and they post on here over and over again:

Quote:
I am scrapping my model
followed by
Quote:
Pretty much I don't plan on changing anything,
WTF?????????

and then

Quote:
I truly feel the sales rep's job is more than just the sale, it's managing that customer from the first point of contact all the way to their final satisfaction that we delivered as promised. That's THEIR customer.
That's called a project manager. Good luck getting proven salesman to switch to that in any other way other than b.s.ing you as much as it takes for you to get off their back about it. Trained saleman don't manage projects or customers. They can't even manage their own personal lives which are almost always pure train wrecks, and you expect a guy like that to manage a customer and a project?

Salesmen sell and managers manage.

Part of the problem why some people for years keep posting the same problem over and over again is because they are simply too hard headed to realize they are creating their own problems.

A salesman who will do all of this is one in a million, the proverbial needle in a haystack and if he is doing it, he's just one job away from quiting being a salesman and getting a job as a sales manager.

GET IT? Let your salesman sell and either manage them yourself as part of your duties as an owner or hire a sales manager to manage them. Other than that, enjoy the frustrations cause they ain't going away anytime soon no matter what.

Trying to get a salesperson to do all that stuff on his own with nobody riding his ass, is wishful thinking. People who sell are into sales because they hate that stuff. The two are diametrically opposed in their personalities. Order takers are great at being organized, neat and efficient, salesman are not.
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Old 02-13-2009, 12:01 PM   #17
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Re: Salesman Duties


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Finley View Post
You actually make the point that needs to be said here.

If you're the owner, you're the owner, your salesperson is not the owner, he's a salesperson. If he had the potential to do what you do, he would be doing it and you would be competing against his company instead of him working for you as a salesperson.

Owners need to wake the F up and realize that what they do their sales people won't and stop being so shocked when they keep proving this to you time after time.

Yeah yeah yeah. Can I get the Rocky Mountain Hummer and the 200k a year or not?
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Old 02-13-2009, 05:38 PM   #18
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Re: Salesman Duties


Quote:
Originally Posted by rbsremodeling View Post
What is the average roof/job sale price?
Currently 8k residential would be average, but that's not to say we don't have some roofs we've done for $30 or 40k. Commercial is much much more, as I priced a job today for $75k, and we are a mix of 80% residential and 20% commercial.

1 mil should be no problem for a skilled salesman in this industry, and I have met many people who can do it. Could you earn 200k? Yes you can, IF you can close the ammount noted above.

Last edited by Grumpy; 02-13-2009 at 05:57 PM.
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Old 02-13-2009, 05:40 PM   #19
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Quote:
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Currently 8k residential would be average, but that's not to say we don't have some roofs we've done for $30 or 40k. Commercial is much much more and we are a mix of 80% residential dn 20% commercial.

1 mil should be no problem for a skilled salesman in this industry, and I have met many people who can do it. Could you earn 200k? Yes you can, IF you can close the ammount noted above.

Ok I will be in Chicago this summer. Do I fill out the application now or when I get there?

I want all commission no draws, Whats my commission %.

Do I get a bonus if I sell for more than what is the Norm?

Mike also offered me use of the Rocky Mountain Hummer can you match that?
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Old 02-13-2009, 05:50 PM   #20
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Re: Salesman Duties


Yes Mike I am scrapping the model, and yes I don't plan on changing anything. How can that be? I might be suprised by someone and wake up when I stop TELLING them how it's going to be and begin ASKING them how they want it. At that point, even though I don't plan on changing things I may make the decision to change. So far I haven't found anyone I felt worth changing for. Besides you've known me for years and should know by now, I am a walking contradiction.

A salesmans job is more than to sell period, end of story... at least in my company. INfact that's why all my internal documents label them as "Estimators". Any salesman who sells and knows nothing else, but to sell, is of little value to me as I need to hire someone else to pick up their slack. Lazy is what I call them. That's why I pay more than the average company, because I expect more from my estimators/salesmen. As I said if you want the extra dollar, you go the extra mile. This is a motto that I live by.

Mike I'll find the people I want. They are out there, and I am not going to do half their job for them nor hire someone to do half their job for them. I'll keep looking and will eventually find them. I'm not looking for typical "sales" people. I'm definetly not looking for closers. They are train wrecks, you are right. I've hired those people, and don't want them working for me or anywhere near or around me. I feel dirty being around those people. They are nothing but stress and head aches. As you said, yes, I'd prefer an order taker. I'd prefer working with two order takers than one salesman any day of the week hands down. Salesmen have the sterotype of being scum bags for a reason. Not all are, but...

I leave you with: Who said ANYTHING about NOT riding their ass? I don't think I ever suggested not managing your employees. However managing and DOING are apples and oranges.

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