Question For BDiamond --sales Related

BDiamond

Oldfart.....you have to read the whole thread. I don't SAY this to the homeowner. This is what we REALLY WANT to say as salesman but DON'T. So we pet the dog and compliment his ****ty tile work in the bathroom. The point everyone is missing is that millions of dollars are spent on developing sales processes. That's how this thread started. I used the $10,000 to $7500/"job down the way" to illustrate a Law of Persuasion and how some might use it to generate Scarcity and Reciprocity.

I used this quote above as a fuuny way to illustrate why we need Laws of Persuasion and an understanding of buying habits to get things going forward with these people. If you don't sell siding or windows then this stuff probably means nothin to you. If you do you probably get it.

rselectric1

Bingo!

You salesmen are quick witted, smart, can come back and handle objections flawlessly, can close the suggested 3 times in progressively stronger ways, and apply the same "techniques" (I hate that word) to anything you sell whether it's windows, cars, or time shares. I respect your talents and ambitions, but I must say that I agree with Norm, Dave, Finley etc.

We are (for the most part) smaller businessmen who have to rely on proving ourselves by means of integrity, not technique to keep working. Norm said it perfectly.

If the whole window thing doesnt pan out for you, you can apply the same techniques selling ANYTHING. We on the other hand are mostly locked into what we do best. The bad part for us is that we have to compete against this type of fast talk on nearly every call. I guess that's just life.

As far as techniques you have shared in this thread, I for one appreciate you trying to help us but any of us who have taken even the most archaic of sales courses can recognize them and if you tried them on me I would just laugh.

The unfortunate part is that you are so good at them that you unwittingly do end up ripping off those without the education or street smarts to recognize them like we do.

Sleep on that.

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220...221...whatever it takes!

buddy110

Yea, that worked out really well for McCain

NormW

Come again?

BDiamond

I'm going to reply to the original post, make a general comment, and then let's close the thread as things have gotten sideways and unproductive.

Davinci,

People are a little scared of salesman in general. They are afraid we are going to use fancy techniques and Laws of Persuasion to get them to do something they don't want to do. So typically they have all these things they say that are really just a defense mechanism. It doesn't mean they aren't important. Just don't take them to heart right away.

1. Say, "No problem." Homeowners say this because they're afraid salesman will try to sell the highest price item to get the biggest commission. Just provide them with the best option you have to satisfy their need. If they want something less expensive but it won't really be right for them let them know. At least you've done you're due diligence in doing what's right for the customer.

2. Say "No problem." Same as above. And some don't know the difference. Be sure to educate your customers about the different grades so they can be educated consumers. There is nothing about closing same day as long as you are educating the customer to allow them to make a well educated decision based on facts.

3. Say "No Problem". Most homeowners feel a window, is a window, is a window. There are some salesman who will takes advantage of a homeowner's lack of knowledge and sell them whatever they can. It also doesn't mean a $300 is a bad window depending on the purpose it was used for. If you don't bash the others decision but educate your homeowner of the differences and let them draw their own conclusion you'll usually find you won't be dealing with this objection at the end.

4. Say "No problem." Customers don't have to. However, if you genuinely care about the customers needs, try to provide them with the best solution you have, price it fairly, and make it affordable, then you have the right to ask them to.

One Call Closing is a standard in our industry. Laws of Persuasion are used in commercials, ads, and even in relationships. Used fairly they are just a tool to help people along in the buying process as, in this industry, it is the most procrastinated improvement people will make. There is nothing wrong with this as long as they are used fairly and in the complete interest of serving the customer.

So be unique, be the expert, educate the customer, establish a sense of working together towards a common goal, and you will close many jobs with homeowners just like these.



Salesman and contractors don't have to be foes.

After all, the owners of most companies I'll ever work for were/are contractors. They just decided to hire someone to tell people what they do and how much it's going to be. I get jobs for you by understanding the psychology of buying and selling and using that knowledge to get..."tire kickers" I think you call them....to do something. Your craftsmanship and integrity is what makes sure the company is around so I have a job. It all works in unison.

So if a salesman can say, "Hey Joe, You might want to try saying, 'Would you like me to start tomorrow or would Monday work better?' when asking for their business instead of 'When would you like me to start?' because buyers will typically PICK from options instead of SUGGEST them." then look at it as a suggestion. If you don't agree or it wouldn't work for you don't rip the post. Just move on...it's all meant to be helpful.

Salesguys have just as much a right to be here learning and sharing as anyone else. If we can learn from you guys awesome. And if we can help make a good suggestion (I've got a few on some posts) great!

We might have ordered different stuff but we're all sitting at the same table.

Who wants to start a new thread? Anyone know some good contractor jokes?

buddy110

It was rhetorical. I.E. Obama was the better salesman... get it?

NormW

No, I don't get it

Obama is not a salesman. He's the president.
McCain is not a salesman. He's a War Hero.

Get It?

buddy110

You're missing the point.

Obama sold his concepts to America better tha McCain, which is why he's president

You're right though about McCain. He's not a salesman, which is why he's not the president


Just because you may have the better ideas, or services doesn't insure you'll win the prize. A little salesmanship never hurts...

buildsmart

I guess some guys start hating the guys who get 40% more and land the jobs 70% of the time.....I can always use a good sub though. I guess you can think whatever you want when you do not have a lot of overhead. The guys with the showrooms and offices need good salesman to even stay a fixture in the community. While declining to work from home and a PO Box we strive to provide trust in our customers by having a showroom and office to come in and discuss their needs. Stable companies cannot afford to be lax when it comes to sales. To properly and professionally provide our clients with the best overall service we have to staff a marketing department, financing department, construction department, sales department, and service department. I guess you have to ask yourself something when your low balling against a "bigger company" and you still did not land that contract. Lost another one to a pushy salesman? No, It is because someone else provided the client with a better fit even if it comes at a higher cost. Someone else conveyed their message more than you did. People see value in a company and not just the price. Customers deserve better and they know it and they are willing to pay for the peace of mind. So even if you are the lowest price in town and you do good work. You could always do better by having strong sales skills. Instead of arguing with each other. We should be learning valuable lessons from both sides. A salesman can sell more intelligent and confident if they know what the trade knows. A trade can land more contracts and get more money if they know what the salesman knows. Its a win/win. .We're all good people here...

DavidC

I guess this isn't going to die.

It's not that some are only salesmen vs. some are owner/salesman/installer. And it's not that company A sells for more or less than company B. We all should be selling whatever it is we sell at a price that meets our own goals for profit and to cover our overhead.

The 1-800 window companies are in every market so we all compete with them if we sell windows. I've subbed from a couple of them myself and considered it none of my business what they sold for as long as my cut did what I needed it to. In reality I've closed a few deals with customers turned off by the huge discounts for buying tonight crowd, as I'm sure they've outsold me on occasion.

In my view if you present your product at what you are calling a fair and justified price and sell it, fine. Let it be what it is. When the customer doesn't buy and you start in with big discounts to close it smells fishy. If you can still sell at 25% off and meet the goals of your company than there is no justification for the added charge that the not so savvy customers got when he bought at full price. Plain and simple they got nothing for the extra buck.

But that is still between the snake and the mouse and none of my business. It goes on everyday everywhere.

The real damage is done when a contractor asks for advice on how to close in one call and a huge discount is the method discussed. My biggest worry is that a lurking newbie reads that advice and says that's the way to go and starts selling himself into a huge hole that serves neither him nor his clients.

If that is all you got than you've got nothing. Your not selling, your taking orders just like the gal at the diner. If you've got that kind of latitude than you are taking advantage of the homeowners that buy at full price.

For the record, a salesman on my payroll closes most of the deals we put together. He has 0% pricing leeway when he goes out on a call. If we need to reduce the cost to meet the clients budget than something comes off the table to affect that reduction. He claims it actually makes his job easier.

I take a little comfort in the knowledge that this is a public forum and homeowners can and do read these threads while researching. All of our cards are on the table here, and I like my hand.

Good Luck
Dave

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welterweight

David makes a great point guys..i partially blame myself because i started a thread or two..perhpas we pm one another. we all basically know who the salesman are here so lets give that a try. good heads up Dave.