Question About My Work, Sales Literature And Copyright Laws?

Bone Saw

Hoping Mike Finley or one of you other sales gurus can give me some perspective on this, Here's an email I received the other day from a past customer:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Raf@emc.com
To: <snus280@msn.com>
Subject: Just an fyi
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 18:31:39 -0400
>Chris, just an Fyi- some folks from Trex have been calling and they want to take some photo's of our deck this week potentially for their next set of brochures and website. I wanted to let you know in case your/our project ends up in print or on their website some day.
>Hope all is well,take care.
>Raf





I stopped over this clients house on sunday to catch up with him and was told spencer advertising had been over his house last wed. to do a photo and video shoot on my deck. I am really stoked about this, however somewhat puzzled that I was never contacted by trex, or spencer advertising on this. The only photos trex has of this deck is the ones submitted by me as part of their online warrenty registration, obviously releasing ownership of said pix to trex. I am certainly not bitching about this, I just want to know what my rights are concerning my work being used for sales purposes by this decking juggernaut. and how consent, authorization, and proper credit concerning me come into play if at all??? tia

ProWallGuy

Great question. Wish I could help, but I have no clue.
I had a job last years make it in a national publication, but had already signed over the rights for a contest when I submitted it. But it was nice to get my name plastered all over the place, so at least I got recognition for the project.
I'm all ears as to what is said on this too. Legal rights and whatnot if someone uses it without even talking to you about it.

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dayspring

Just a guess, but I'll bet when you recieved payment for the project, it all became property of the HO. Not sure however about the pics you sent to Trex. They probaly won't print them if they have done their own shoot. Congrats though, You have good reason to be proud!

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dougchips

I am with dayspring on this, you sold your art work. If it was still in the design stage you might own it. It is somewhat puzzling that they did not contact you. If the customer did not sign a release yet, have them add as a condition that your company is given credit if and when the pictures are shown (print,tv ads).

Stone Mountain

You probably have an "intelectual" copywrite. However, trying to enforce it will likely go nowhere, expensively.

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Tscarborough

Unless you designed the project or they use your actual photo, you have no rights what so ever. Listing you as the builder is a courtesy only.

This also is relevant on any photos you put into YOUR sales lit. Make sure you have a release from both the owner and the architect/designer before you use it.

(I know this because I do our ads and our literature, and association brochures, flyers and ads).

Mike Finley

Being an ex pro photographer copyright was a big part of our business, so....

You don't have any copyright to the deck, there is no such thing as copyright photographically for building something for someone else. Copyright law is based on private property in this case and since you built the deck on somebodies private property in order for Trex to use it in a photo for advertising, other than them shooting it from the public street they need permission from the owner of the property. It's a simple photo shoot release form from them from the owner giving them full rights to do any old thing they want to with it. They may give the homeowner some consideration like some money, but more likely nothing, or maybe a Trex hat as long as that is all it takes to get the signature.

Now if the homeowner is willing, he can add any stipulation he wants to the release if Trex wants the photos bad enough. He could stipulate on the release that any time the photographs are show they have to display a bi-line such as "Deck bulit by BoneSaw". Of course it comes down to usually Trex would say thanks but no thanks and move on.

Good luck, no matter what it's an awesome thing to have this happen for you. One way or another you can use it to your advantage.

Bone Saw

Mike you pretty much confirmed what I was thinking all along, thanx. Again I am not by any means bitching about this, this is a great thing 4 me, Even if I never build another trex deck again, why would I pass up national advertising on thier dime. I was just trying to find out if there were any credit obligations on their part for publishing this since I did design it as I do all my projects. I guess the way Im looking at this is like why would they go right to the HO and bypass me altogether, what interest is it to them and the HO to keep me out of the loop, I mean the HO kept me in the loop, so what am I missing? or am I being too analytical about all of this?

BreyerConstruct

Trex dosn't strike me as always being the "smartest" company.
It might have just seemed easier to them.

~Matt

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RobertCDF

I imaging that trex does not think highly of contractors like most companies. They probably thought the HO desinged it because "contractors are just dumb... They know nothing more than swinging a hammer" Or that they "bought" the plans and hired some joe with a hammer to build it.

I think this is a great oppurtunity for you either way... If they dont list you then get lots of pics and carry that brocure around too. Tell people you built that deck even if you dont want to use thier products anymore. I would milk that bad boy for everything its worth. If any one of me deck pics ever ends up anywhere... Believe me I will be showing it to everyone.

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Mike Finley

Here is the legalese of the situation

Copyright protection also extends to architectural works, specifically for architectural works created after March 1, 1989. However copyright protection also has limitations. A release is not needed to photograph a building or property visible from a public place. However, permission is needed to photograph and reproduce images of a building protected by copyright and not visible from a public place. Entering private property to photograph a building or related private property may also trigger a claim of trespass. To avoid such claims, photographers, publishers and filmmakers use a property release, sometimes known as a location release.

The deck in on the home owner's property, he owns it, he owns the photographic copyright automatically, so nobody really cut you out of the loop, since you were never in the loop to begin with.

Danahy

I did a project for BM two years ago. Didn't think much of it, til it appeared in the 2005 BM Calendar (Oct), and the photo in the tuscany brochure (Picture with a huge old fireplace). There was no mention of who did it, and I never knew it was even being photographed. I have enjoyed being able to say that I did that, and if someone really wanted proof could call BM. Also I have the original Before photo of the same room.

Bone Saw

here it is
http://www.trex.com/universal/showca...PABrasilia.asp
http://www.trex.com/Universal/showca...erDeckCaye.asp
http://www.trex.com/Universal/showca...ayenneRail.asp
http://www.putfile.com/cdac/images/36090
The clover job will be in the next round

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dougchips

Did you PM the links to Same old? It would be nice if Trex had an option for HO's to contact the deck builders who had their art shown on the site. "click here to re-direct to the artist/deck builders web-site".

Your work is art.

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Mike Finley

No wonder they wanted to use your work! Nice job. Looks like they had it professionally lit, you can see the cross shadows in the second pic from multiple light sources.

Very nice. Can you use the pics on your website and for promotion?

Bone Saw

Mike & Dougchips, thanx for the compliments, much appreciated. I did put a link to it on the home page of my website, so hopfully it will help with prospective clients surfing by my site. there is definitely some photo shopping going on, the plantings around the deck are not there, and landscape backdrop look nothing like whats pictured and they "ommited" a stair grabrail , which bummed me out, that was my favorite part of that deck, I can't wait to see the clover job, that is going to be off the hook

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Mike Finley

I was going to ask you if they did a lot of retouching, you can see it big time in the first pic where it almost looks like the entire house was tent lighted which would be impossible.

They have a link to ask for permission to use the pics, I'm sure they would let any Trex dealer use them to promote their product, you being the guy that is the end user and purchaser/seller of Trex and builder of the deck should have just as good a shot to use them as anybody else, I would think.

woodmagman

CAD/photoshop is a realistic tool

RobertCDF

Man a pro photographer and a a lot of time in the studio! The deck looks great and they made it look a little too touched up I think.

But besides that... Great job! That should help you sell a few more.

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Bone Saw

i wasthinking the same thing

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