Professional Salesman

wackman

I read on here somewhere the comment, "hire a pro salesman and watch you company go to the next level".

It got me wondering, I've always sold based on honestly, low to no pressure, comfort with the customers, etc..

I'm not a natural salesman but when it's something I really believe in AND it's something someone wants I do OK. I've always thought the sales part would be the last part I'd hand over to an employee but now I'm wondering.

Do you think a really good salesperson who comes to you with very limited construction knowledge/experience could do a better job selling remodels and additions than you, the very experienced and knowledgeable owner of the company?

Many of my subs have sales people who don't know much about what I want done and it seems to work fine, they usually just call out an installer with them and the two figure out what I need.

What do you think, can a pro salesman indeed take your company to the next level with something as personal and complicated as remodeling or is that really just for a commodity based product?

dirt diggler

wack -

first, i hope this thread turns into one of those 5-pagers. great topic

wish i had the answer ... but ... think of the idea that your business is only as strong as its weakest link.

Me? From reading your above post, I'd say you and I are similar "types" when it comes to being salesmen. I am very low-pressure and prefer honesty to high-pressured sales tactics.


But while I sell the jobs that I get ... it makes me wonder about the hundreds of jobs that I DO NOT get - simply because a better salesman came in before/after me.

so - this has been something I've considered lately.... anyways, im going to step aside and learn something ... have at it guys

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Thanks in advance!!!

Patrick

I have been wondering this also, I do all my own selling, I have all my samples, I do a decent presentation, but i kinda shy away when theres not high interest / excitement from a customer. From meeting with a lot of my vendor reps, and just salesmen that i deal with in other areas of life, I can see that I am missing that edge that they all have to sorta jump in your head and get you excited about whatever it is they are selling.

I to hate the forceful hard sell type of approach, but i think there are a lot of salesmen out there that have a good balance and are able to sell really well, and not leave the customer feeling like they were just hit in the head with a baseball bat.

Teetorbilt

A GOOD salesman will make you and a bad one can break you.

They think differently. Case in point. Kitchen remod. I'm breaking down all of the numbers and the salesman sells the additional value to the home. The end result; I make triple of what I was going to charge.

I made a lot of money with that dude and he taught me how to sell. Unfortunately the money, drugs, alcohol and very young women (not illegal) was his downfall.

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You can't solve you're problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems.

Albert Einstein

Grumpy

What defines who is a pro? How do you attract a pro? I agree that a professional salesman will grow your business, 100% agree. However "salesmen" have earned a sterotype for a reason. I've intereviewed alot of salesmen, and I can say Oh My God, most are con men and thieves. Most have no idea what they are trying to sell, but boy oh boy, they don't take No for an answer. I don't want people like that working for me.

Oh I've hired those guys, what you find is they are not only stealing from the customer, but also from you. They will knock a few necessary items out of the scope of work to get the price down to what they need it to be and then tell you they forgot. For example they might pruposely price a 2 layer roof tear off as one layer. Etc...

I sell very much the same way you have, honesty, knowledge. I find my best salesman was a roofer for 36 years. He looks at a job and knows what needs to be done, and I tought him how to put a price to that scope of work. However guys like him are hard time find. He is an honest intelligent man who knows what he's talking about.

My second best salesman has been selling roofing for 16 years. He has no hands on experience, but because he's been doing it for so long he just learned by osmosis. He knows what needs to be done, I'm just trying to break him of some old habits he had at the last places he worked for.

Compare the two salesmen, both bring in the same numbers at the end of the month. The old roofer brings in less jobs at a much higher profit. The seasoned salesman brings in more jobs but bids exactly to the price list. You can only bid the average job to the price list.

If the salesmen doesn't know what he is doing and has to call out an installer... that's time and money wasted. Sure it happens from time to time you need to get a 2nd set of eyes on a job, but regardless it's redundant if the salesman's ONLY skills are sales. I'd rather hire someone who is well rounded, rather than someone who excells at one thing and lacks in other areas.

Vinny

I would reiterate alot of the already written.

For us I needed a sales person to be able to follow up on the ever increasing amount of leads. Since I couldnt do it all my self hireing a sales person for that alone was a buisness doubler for me.

But now its time to hire someone that can do what a real sales person needs to do so we can get to the next level. He's gotta be the guy that can sell snow to escimos(I know I didnt spell that right)

Thats not to say I want a real shmoozer. I sell the way you guys are talking about. 0 pressure. And thats what my sales person will need to be, but I admit I am not skilled at adjusting my wording and actions to the prospect type.

There alot to be said about that type of person that can adapt to the varying prospects like a chamillion changes colors. Thats where a skilled sales person can move you to the next level. I,m not talking about some snake oil type here. He or she has to have my morality and commitment to the client and my buisness but there are people that are people people and those that are mediocer (myself) and those that have no people skills(my foremen) LOL

Of course thats only 1 small part of the equation but its a needed part.

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Roccies Asphalt Paving
The Right Way Driveway Company
If you say you cant, your a loser. If you say you wont, your a quiter. Which one do you want to be?

Ed the Roofer

So, does that basic commission amount of a typical 10 % follow on the added value sales. I am presuming a scenario as an example: $ 25,000 job cost Priced for $ 30,000 by your pricing, with a 20 % net profit expected, but the is able to add $ 10,000 to the job.

I am assuming no additional work was included, but that the salesman was just able to get a higher premium. Does his commission (whatever it is, but I am using 10 % for the example), for the additional $ 10,000 remain at 10%
or does he share in the increased net profit?

This also makes me wonder about the ethics in overselling the same valued job now, but for an additional 10 grand. If their commission rate increases for the higher net profit available, could they be tempted to take advantage of certain customers? It would be your companys' reputation that isa on the line.

I have considered a tiered commission rate, to minimize the potential of goughing a customer.

1st 10 % over job pricing rate = 20 % to 30 %
2nd 10 % over job pricing rate = 10 % to 20 %
Above 20 % over job pricing rate = 10 % or less

I know that this seems to be taking profit out of my own pocket as well, but I would be troubled if my already premium priced services were to be even further exagerrated.

and Grumpy,
Did he knowingly and intentionally misclassify the roof as a one layer where it was actually two layers?
Or, was a bottom layer hidden by an old galvanized j-channel?
Also, do you have any clause in your contract that relates to any unforseen additional layers discovered during the actual job in progress and then get a signed change order for the remaining work that was not included in the initial price?

Ed

dirt diggler

im having trouble digesting this


ok, with a salesman ... you made triple of what you were going to charge initially? gross/total sales price im assuming.

let's take a kitchen remodel. I'll use $25,000 for example - for what you would initially charge.

with a salesman .... now you were able to charge three times as much ...


so then you ended up selling the same kitchen remodel for $75,000 ???


and you did this on a consistent basis???

I could see someone getting lucky ONCE. But in order to consistently "make three times what I was going to charge initially" - you'd have to have a somewhat competitive rate. I'm all for the high ball - but in reality ... you can only go so high in price. Sooner or later, someone's going to laugh and say "you're crazy"

now ... being that high in price would be great if your competition is charging around $75,000 for the same kitchen remodel.

But that would mean that you were underbidding yourself by $50,000 all along. If all your competitors came in at 75K ... all with a 100% mark up on their job costs .... their job cost alone would still be MORE than you were selling the job for


and if their costs were that high .... you simply would have gone bankrupt before your first project was done ... if you were charging at $25,000.



So something aint jivin

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Thanks in advance!!!

Patrick

I think it depends on what field we are talking about. I can say without a doubt, a salesman could sell windows and siding at three times what a small guy would do it for. I also think a company that gives their salesman good financing tools, and allows them to sell a project at $XX/month rather than the total price helps a great deal also.

vinylguy

i set all prices ffor my salemen to sell for. if it is more i make more if it is less it comes off his commish. it's also up to you to hire correctly and not some spaz. ethics is very important. and also if presented right all the way around then there needs not to be any high pressure. remember they called you to be their so they want the the work done. and you know like me and the rest of us that the hack down the road is going to do it for less but screw them over in the long run so why bshouldn't they go with you?

wackman

This is what I meant by commodity. Take five guys selling oil. Oil is oil, It's not complicated to figure out and there's just not much, if any, variation to it. If they've all got the same price, service, etc... then how do you get more sales than the other guys?

That's where I think pro salesmen really come into their element but on something so personal and complicated as a full house renovation or an addition? I just don't know...

Of course the best is what grumpy has in the great salesman who is also an expert but I already got a holy grail superintendent, somehow I don't think I can get lucky enough to find a holy grail salesman too..

Earl1350

Some one e-mailed me the other day about a franchise I was inerested in. He made the comment WE ARE SALESMAN FIRST and contractors second. I hate this way of looking at things but consider all the problems we are dealing with illegals, high taxes, employees, goverment regs, no protection for our business from the very people who want taxes from us. We have to find an edge to beat all the negitives in the market.
If you dont sell and make a profit we wont be in business very long.
If a salesman can sell a job for twice what everyone else is selling it for be happy! And pay them well so they dont go sell for the next guy.
Swinging a hammer is not a hobbie for most of us. you will lose out on a lot of contracts if you sell on low preassure and honesty. If your salesman sells the job for a higher price than other contractors would charge you can then treat you clients like gods. At least you can afford to then.
Where will your client be when its time to send your kids to college or you need a new car? They will not be there to help you because you treated them honestly.
This is a business araingement
I am trying to "move the the next level" and its hard as hell.
We are business people first, contractors second!

Sincerity is everthing, once you can fake that you have it made

dirt diggler

somebody put a sticky on this post

hell, sticky the whole thread

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Thanks in advance!!!

A W Smith

I was talking to a carpenter who had worked for me many years ago last night. he called me originally a few weeks ago looking for work. I sent him to another guy I know but he didn't need him either. He called me last night just to talk. He has gone through some rough times. He does have some work but its day by day. he mentioned that sometimes he has roofs he refers to others because he hates roofs and heights.. I offered the possibility of a commission on roofs. But For 10% he would have to measure and price the roof, write a contract and close. I don't believe he is fully capable of that. Should I just have him refer the client to me and give him a smaller cut since he wont be closing the job doing the estimate or writing the contract? what would be a fair percentage? he never mentioned that the other contractors gave him any commission. In fact one guy he referred roof work to promised him work doing a sidewalk but hired day laborers instead. The guys got a good heart and is honest, a good carpenter and if i had enough work myself I would hire him.

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Al Smith
http://www.awsmith.com

RidgeWalker

IMHO a prefessional salesman should have EXTENSIVE knowlage of the industry he's selling in if he's to be considered a professional.

Like I said in another thread about salesmen, he must be knowlagable, articulate, and confident in his companies ablilities in regards to building the job.

Sure an experianced salesmen may be able to increase your sales enough to takke you to the next level but at what cost. If he can't make a clean sales and his jobs become problems because of how he sold the job it can hinder you company instead of taking it to the next level. Like Grumpy mentioned he might leave out important items to get the cost down, he might make a promice he shouldn't, theres a myriad of things he can say or not say to get the sale. All of which can screw the job up!

I've gone through two phases when hiring salesmen.
1. Hire new people who have little knowlage of sales.
With new people it's hard to find those dertirminded enough to overcome alot of rejection, and they have a huge learning curve.

2. Hire experianced people in construction sales.
With experianced people it's hard to teach the old dog new tricks, and get them on your program instead of thiers.

Both have pitfalls and there is no easy solution.


I do not believe in high pressure selling and you don't need to use these tactics to be do well in contruction sales.

I've said this before and I'll say it again.

Edjucate Edjucate Edjucate Edjucate your prospect. Edjucating you prospect makes you the authority in thier eyes. Every one wants the peace of mind knowing that they did business with the authority. Remember that the average home owners knows jack about construction and they will jump at the oportunity to do business with some one who comes to thier home and edjucates them. You'll stand out like a sore thumb and every one else they've spoken to will be measured against you. When they recount the other people who came to thier home they'll use you as the measuring stick. This is why I prefer to be the last person they talk to. And all boasting aside I and my guys are usually the last person they talk to becuase during the presentation they prospect realizes we are the authority and every one else they spoke to didn't take the time to edjucate them so we walk out of the house with a signed contract.

So the key in finding that salesman that will help take you contruction company to the next level is one who understandd this principal and will get on "YOUR" program. And of course he must ask "EVERY" prospect, and "ASSUME" every prospect is going to sign the contract before he even makes it inside the house.

Another note, learn to speak in terms of past tense never future tense. <--- don't brush aside that statement, ponder it and learn why it's so important in contrcution sales.

eagleandbaby

This comment is not so much about salesman but it kind of applies. It could probably go under not watching your P + L or not paying attention as well. It is about not getting all the money you can out of a job without being unethical.

For the first 2 years of working for a major insurance company we did approximately 300 jobs for them. At the end of the two years when I was looking at the volume I saw that there was little to no profit stashed away from them it was depressing. Because I felt we were lucky to get in with the big insurance company, I felt like I had to not make waves, I accepted pricing that the adjusters would give and my main focus was on getting the jobs done. They were happy I was not questioning the prices and to see me doing the work for so cheap. Eventually we figured out how to game the system for the most money, they used their own estimating software, and got less resistance then I was afraid of when we questioned most estimates.

Anyway, I feel like we wasted A LOT of money those two years and it makes me sick when I think about it.

The post above about paying for kids education and other things is right on. Anyway not much about salesman but kind of to the point about getting the most out of a job.

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homemasters

Pete M

A number of years ago I wrote an article about this for a Plumbing and Drain Magazine. Perhaps you can relate the article to your trade and what's being discussed here. I think selling strategies are the same for all contractors, regarless of specialty. When you read this, consider the concepts - not the specific plumbing references

Here's the article: (Hope it helps)
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As the small businesses scratch and claw to lift themselves from the primordial ooze there is one hotly contested issue that keeps their workboots glued to the sticky mud. They buy the new equipment, update their fleets, hire the personnel, work on setting the right pricing, advertise, go to seminars, join associations, etc, but they have one hang-up—selling to their customers. Not all companies, but enough of them.

Interestingly, the proponents of selling define sales differently than the detractors. The proponents say that sales are nothing more than giving the customer options based on honest information. Those against say, "I’m not a salesman" and "I don’t sell" or "We do volume".

The sales side assumes that customers are intelligent and have the smarts to make their own decisions based on information given. They believe the customers will choose to spend their money on a better product or service with higher value. The no-sell side asserts the opposite—that everything is based on low price only and assumes the customer will only spend the least amount of money possible and is just not interested to want the value of spending a bit more to get a lot more for their money. The non-sales side tends to define selling as a hard sell, they tend to believe that selling is something you do to a customer. The sales side tends to believe that selling is something you do for a customer.

Here’s the real question: What do customers buy? The no-sell side wants to believe that customers buy only what they need for as little as possible. The fact is, customers initiate a purchase based on their immediate need, but ultimately what they buy is what they want. It’s the want that must be satisfied, not just the immediate need. They call you for a need, but you sell them what they want.

What do customers want? Ask yourself, what would you need and what would you want if you came home one day and found your basement full of sewage from a sewer backup? What you need is to get the sewer draining immediately, get rid of the nasty stuff and clean up the mess, right? But, what is it that you really want? You would want the problem gone forever. You would want to be given your options based on a quality diagnosis, not just guesses or assumptions. You would want to have trust and confidence in the person and company you’re dealing with. You would want to be the decision-maker and not be told what to do. You are not looking for the lowest price necessarily, but you want the greatest bang for your buck. As consumers, we do it all the time. We go to the store to buy one thing and we come home with the better model that costs just a few dollars more. Why? Because we perceive the better value for the money spent and we wanted it. We believe that we get what we pay for.

It’s not about price. If customers wanted the lowest price, they would buy the cheapest cars, the cheapest homes, and the cheapest tools. Their children would go to the cheapest schools. We would be eating day-old bread. It’s not a matter of what they need necessarily. The need only initiates the purchasing action. People buy much more than they need. How many suits do you need? How many pairs of shoes do you really need? How many purses does a lady need? How large of a house do you really need? If people bought just what they needed our economy would be in a shambles.

Is it a bad thing to offer a customer a sewer repair on a line that you cable frequently? Is it a bad thing to offer a customer a new toilet when the old one can be fixed to live just a little bit longer? You must help the customers weigh their immediate needs against their long-term wants. What are they trying to accomplish? What’s really in the best interest of the customer? Shouldn’t we at least give them a choice? Shouldn’t we give them the opportunity to buy? What’s wrong with that? If they say, "Yes, replace it", great. If not, you’re fallback position is the immediately needed repair. At least, you gave the customer a choice. You let them get involved in the process.


Here’s the stumbling block. Selling can be done on many levels. It can be the honest and sincere application of your skills to provide your customer with options to resolve his problem. It can be offering your customer the same advice that you would offer your own family. It can be predation on the innocent and unsuspecting. It can be an exercise of the ego for a salesman's killer instinct.

Today’s technologies have given us greater diagnostic capabilities than ever before. They can be utilized to the customers’ benefit and appropriately so. However, in the hands of a charlatan, technology can put an unneeded financial hurt on the trusting consumer. Companies that do that are manipulators. They mis-represent their findings. They magnify the problems they find and incorporate scare tactics. They damage the industry at large and play into those TV shows that show these thieves in action. They make the mountains we climb to gain that customers trust even higher. They sour the crop for a few measly potatoes.

Consider the add-on sale. You can perform additional services for a fraction of what that task would normally cost as a stand-alone service. You are already onsite, presumabley. If you’re priced properly, the bulk of the overhead is already paid with your initial task. You can offer your customer a great deal of additional service for just a few dollars more expense. Aren’t add-ons the best deal for the customer? If you answered yes, then sell them. What’s the problem?

If you are building a company on the basis of offering your customers value, you have to sell. If you are aiming to satisfy your customers, you sell. Order takers don’t make any money. They spend their gross revenue to keep the businesses afloat and keep a few crumbs for themselves. Their people are underpaid and overworked. Their employee turnover is high. They drive beat-up trucks. They don’t have the funds or the time to train. They just go, go, go. For what? Why are they in business? Is that the road to financial freedom? Why take all the risk for a paycheck? If that’s all you want, get out of business and get a job someplace—you’ll sleep better.

But, if your ambition is to create a lucrative money machine that does what’s right for the customer and provides its employees with a future, you have to sell. It’s not about how many jobs you do; it’s about what you do with the jobs you have. Profit is not a bad thing; it’s a necessity. It is your reward for taking the risk in the first place. Profit is what converts a company from just being a job into a salable asset. You deserve it, your employees deserve it and your customers will help you—Just Sell.

wackman

Very nice Pete, I like that a lot.

I tend to be the guy who doesn't push into things that I think someone might want if I think it'll push their budget or they haven't said that's what they're looking for but you've opened my eyes a little bit more and I think I'm going to tweak my presentations to show case some more educational items and some more things that I think they'll "want". Regardless of what I think their budget may be.

This is turning into a very enlightening thread.

vinylguy

great article pete,
the other thing guys need to remember is systems sell the right way! systems in selling start with the price book to all the paper work the saleperson must fill out before the job is accepted. thats how you keep a salesmen from being dishonest. and also you or your production manager should meet with the customer for a final walkthru before work begins along with double checking all measurements or thing as stated before such as 2 layers of roofing instead of 1 think about it if you would have had systems in place to catch this then that sale may not have happened or adjustmeents could have been made or maybe all you would have needed to do was take the sales commish to cover this and the sales guy would have never made this mistake again.

Earl1350

I think I can solve everyones construction problems. I treat clients like I would my family. In 27 years of doing business this way I have found almost no one remembers you as a friend or good contractor. No one calls me up to ask me how I am doing or invite me to go fishing. I have started beatting my head against the wall each morning noon and night telling myself to sell sell sell.
The above quote about if we all just wanted the best price we would eat day old bread holds true only to a point. People have a remarkable way of lying to themselves (just ask that good looking guy in the mirror). Bread I can taste the differance, but a new kitchen most clients cannot "see" in their heads. The are emotionaly involved and scared, affraid to make the wrong decision. With bread I'll just buy a different loaf tomarrow. With a new kitchen I own the good or bad remodel for years. I have taken the educate them and be honest approch most of my career. I find I get beat out many times by the salesman who is the slickest and "looks" the best. People dont understand construction. If one guy will put in their cabinets and counter for 10,000 and I will do it for 10,001 dollars they will almost always go with the lower price. Why? because they do not understand what I will give them over the next guy. That is what sales is all about. I try to educate them but in the end if the other guy smiles better or sounds better even if they are giving the client lesser value (even if you show them in black and white) he will win.
When you young remodelers go up against the big box stores always try to get the client to show you the box stores contract so you can show them what they have not bid into the project.
In the end the client most offten will go with the big box store because they are more comfortable with a big brand name.

When you approch a clients home look around; is the yard well kept, the car washed and waxed, if the wife well dressed? This is more than likely "greed". They want something nice. Sell upgrades and quality.

If the sewer is back up and the basement flooded this is "need" charge them alot to get out of the sitituion their in. They have little choice and are "caught up in the moment" and will agree to just about anything.

If the roof has shingles blown off and a rain storm is coming this is "fear of loss" again charge what you want they have little choice. If the foundation is sinking and there is no imideate "fear of loss" sharpen you pencil because they can bid it out over a long period of time.

Look at the yard, cars, house, neighborhood ect who are you dealing with.

Remember the way it should be and the way people really spend their money is different................