price is not negotiable - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

Apex McGann · 09-23-2008, 11:22 PM

hi All,
I'm still new to bidding and quoting and getting the job stuff. I got license, insurance in place and doing all that i can to bring myself up to professional standards. I do pretty good work and don't take on work that would come back and haunt me. I've been known to say that ultimately 'I'm pretty lazy. I only want to do it once'. but I've never been much of a salesman despite reading much on the subject. So i ask you all for advice. I don't put a negotiation factor in my quotes. Should I? If a client wants to dicker over the price, and there's no room to do so do i just do a door knob close? how do you guys handle it? I'm not opposed to walking but would like the work.

Mark

send_it_all · 09-24-2008, 12:12 AM

I don't leave room for negotiation. Once you let them bargain you down on price, everything becomes negotiable. Judging by the price on your other thread about the fireplace tiling, you are already very low. You said you work for about 300 per day. That's less than $40 per hour, or $80,000 per year. How can you pay yourself a living wage and cover all your company overhead (insurance, fuel, bookkeeping/accounting, advertising, cell phone, etc...) and don't forget profit... I'm sure the cost of living in Tenn. is lower than here in So. Cal., but DAYAMM..it can't be that low. Raise your rates and sell them on your quality.

PA woodbutcher · 09-24-2008, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apex McGann

hi All,
I'm still new to bidding and quoting and getting the job stuff. I got license, insurance in place and doing all that i can to bring myself up to professional standards. I do pretty good work and don't take on work that would come back and haunt me. I've been known to say that ultimately 'I'm pretty lazy. I only want to do it once'. but I've never been much of a salesman despite reading much on the subject. So i ask you all for advice. I don't put a negotiation factor in my quotes. Should I? If a client wants to dicker over the price, and there's no room to do so do i just do a door knob close? how do you guys handle it? I'm not opposed to walking but would like the work.

Mark

My estimates/bids take me a long time to do, so I do some pre-qualifying before I start, but I add lots of options or ways that things can be done. There is no negotiating because it's quite possible what they want is listed.

**genecarp** · 09-24-2008, 06:34 AM

as a rule, no negotiating, the price is the price, however i have a couple of clients that i have worked for who enjoy a bit of haggle, (kinda for sport) so i indulge these few.....

note, a could way to handle the question "can you do better on the price?" yes we can, what would you like to remove from the job?.....

**Leo G** · 09-24-2008, 07:04 AM

Or take your bottom price and tack on 10%. When they haggle you have that number to play with, if they don't haggle you just got an extra 10% increase in pay.

BuildingHomes · 09-24-2008, 07:40 AM

"I charge what I need to charge in order to stay in business and do a good job. You don't want to put me out of business do you?" Works about 90% of the time.

all vinyl · 09-24-2008, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo G

Or take your bottom price and tack on 10%. When they haggle you have that number to play with, if they don't haggle you just got an extra 10% increase in pay.

yea what he said

DavidC · 09-24-2008, 08:07 AM

I agree with no negotiations. Lower price means less work. Think of it as a training session, once they can get you trained to lower your rates once the second time is always easier.

Maybe read up on how to arrive at your price. $40/hr. does sound a bit low if it's true. A CPA once told me that as a rule of thumb you need to charge 3X the highest wage you pay. I'm not a big fan of rules of thumnb, but it does give you an idea.

Good Luck
Dave

Driftwood · 09-24-2008, 08:58 AM

Start out right Son!! TIGHT PANTS BIG BALLS

Remodel Bud · 09-24-2008, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apex McGann

hi All,
I'm still new to bidding and quoting and getting the job stuff. I got license, insurance in place and doing all that i can to bring myself up to professional standards. I do pretty good work and don't take on work that would come back and haunt me. I've been known to say that ultimately 'I'm pretty lazy. I only want to do it once'. but I've never been much of a salesman despite reading much on the subject. So i ask you all for advice. I don't put a negotiation factor in my quotes. Should I? If a client wants to dicker over the price, and there's no room to do so do i just do a door knob close? how do you guys handle it? I'm not opposed to walking but would like the work.

Mark

If you don't negotiate, you will lose sales. If you are losing more sales than you desire, than change your approach. If you keep doing the same things, you get the same results.

I am sure you do good work and i understand how you feel, along with the others postings. There isn't a reason to be upset though. PLEASE understand that people like to feel as if they are getting a deal.

Sales is a "game" so to speak and you can close more deals by adding in a percentage to your job, then learning how to deduct it to close the deal and still reach the desired price for the project. Running a good home improvement company means getting more business, by closing more leads. Closing more leads means learning more techniques.

**Double-A** · 09-24-2008, 09:16 PM

I have to disagree. The business we're in is not one of a commodity market where the competition is to create foot traffic or to drive clicks to a web site.

We sell a unique skill set that requires a great deal of expertise and planning to implement. Once you decide that your reward for playing in this sandbox is negotiable, you have decided that your future and the future of those that depend on you is for sale. We don't negotiate price.

We sell service, not appliances, not TVs, not roofing materials. We can't make up lower prices by selling more units. We only have so many hours per week to be productive and to earn our fees.

By building in additional percentages into your price to allow for negotiation of that price, you are telling yourself that you're unsure of what you and your product are worth.

If you're qualifying your clients and discussing budget and what can be done within that budget as opposed to what they think can be done, then your price should not be an issue.

Negotiate what you can do, not what you won't do. Find a way to meet your client's expectations and to educate their expectations to be more realistic given what they are asking.

If you lower your price, then you might as well go sell cars. Winning a client at the cost of becoming a slave to the job or go into debt just to keep on working is not working, its robbing your family and yourself of your future.

Know what you know because you have done your homework. Do what you do because you're good at it and trust your skills. Feel comfortable that your price is fair to everyone involved, not just your client.

Play games and you run the risk of losing. Be yourself and you run the risk of not making a new friend. But you also run the risk of making a friend and closing a sale. This is not a game. Its business. You lose in business when you start playing games.

We work in people's homes and offices. We are entrusted with building things that they will use daily and raise their family in. They trust us to do a good job. That trust does not come cheaply.

Why would you sell yourself out for less? Why would you charge more just to charge less?

onenia · 09-24-2008, 10:15 PM

I think you can approach it two ways.

1. If your customer gives you a budget then you can give them a price on what they would be able to get for that price.

2. If your customer doesn't give you a budget then you need to ask a lot of qualifying questions to gage their budget.

Sometimes asking the question different ways will tell you if price is truly the issue or if they're just not sold yet.

Bottom line you have to be comfortable with whatever style works for you. Sometimes you'll find that a small amount like $200 may be the difference in getting a job and not.

I personally welcome negotiations because I'm the type of person that will never take the first price. I have a sales background and always feel like I can do better. I leave a little wiggle room and most times I don't have to use it and end up buying them a thank you gift with the extra money.

Remodel Bud · 09-24-2008, 10:23 PM

I also know quite a bit about the business, as I have been in construction my entire life. The sooner you learn that sales plays a part in EVERY project, you will be better off......

Remodel Bud · 09-24-2008, 10:35 PM

it's important to have good sales negotiation skills in order to survive in nowadays' dog-eat-dog, take-no-prisoners show-no-mercy business environment. This is especially important for those who own and operate their own businesses. Such a person literally needs to be a "Jack-of-all-trades," because there is so much to do and keep track of, all of which require many skills - including negotiation skills. This is an important skill set to have when dealing with partners and employees, but is even more vital when dealing with customers. Good sales negotiation skills will put you in charge of the situation while enabling you to find solutions that satisfy all parties involved.

Mike Finley · 09-24-2008, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Remodel Bud

i Have been selling for over 20 years and run multi million dollar business's in multiple cities in home improvements. TRUST me research my back ground before you think I don't know the business. ITS ABOUT SALES!

You aren't selling yourself short by negotiating, you are using selling techniques to close more deals. WOW, can't believe I am having this conversation.

Welcome to reality. Just when you thought you had it all figured out...

... you don't!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double-A

I have to disagree. The business we're in is not one of a commodity market where the competition is to create foot traffic or to drive clicks to a web site.

We sell a unique skill set that requires a great deal of expertise and planning to implement. Once you decide that your reward for playing in this sandbox is negotiable, you have decided that your future and the future of those that depend on you is for sale. We don't negotiate price.

We sell service, not appliances, not TVs, not roofing materials. We can't make up lower prices by selling more units. We only have so many hours per week to be productive and to earn our fees.

By building in additional percentages into your price to allow for negotiation of that price, you are telling yourself that you're unsure of what you and your product are worth.

If you're qualifying your clients and discussing budget and what can be done within that budget as opposed to what they think can be done, then your price should not be an issue.

Negotiate what you can do, not what you won't do. Find a way to meet your client's expectations and to educate their expectations to be more realistic given what they are asking.

If you lower your price, then you might as well go sell cars. Winning a client at the cost of becoming a slave to the job or go into debt just to keep on working is not working, its robbing your family and yourself of your future.

Know what you know because you have done your homework. Do what you do because you're good at it and trust your skills. Feel comfortable that your price is fair to everyone involved, not just your client.

Play games and you run the risk of losing. Be yourself and you run the risk of not making a new friend. But you also run the risk of making a friend and closing a sale. This is not a game. Its business. You lose in business when you start playing games.

We work in people's homes and offices. We are entrusted with building things that they will use daily and raise their family in. They trust us to do a good job. That trust does not come cheaply.

Why would you sell yourself out for less? Why would you charge more just to charge less?

Right on

Here you want to negotiate? negotiate THIS (point to crotch)

Remodel Bud · 09-24-2008, 10:43 PM

Not everyone is capable, some people are just able.....i see that

Mike Finley · 09-24-2008, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Remodel Bud

it's important to have good sales negotiation skills in order to survive in nowadays' dog-eat-dog, take-no-prisoners show-no-mercy business environment. This is especially important for those who own and operate their own businesses. Such a person literally needs to be a "Jack-of-all-trades," because there is so much to do and keep track of, all of which require many skills - including negotiation skills. This is an important skill set to have when dealing with partners and employees, but is even more vital when dealing with customers. Good sales negotiation skills will put you in charge of the situation while enabling you to find solutions that satisfy all parties involved.

Oh please.

Your product is worth what the market percieves it's worth. Perception is created by your marketing. Perception is created by your sales people. Perception is created by your past customers.

If you place a low value on your product your customers will follow your lead.

If what you say is the truth the American Express card would not exist.

Remodel Bud · 09-24-2008, 10:50 PM

I don't think you are reading and understanding the part you just commented on, or you wouldn't have said any of that! none!i never said anything about having the lowest low price DID I...........I just said negotiating, offering a discount to close more deals will be beneficial. We can agree to disagree. good luck!

Good sales negotiation skills will put you in charge of the situation while enabling you to find solutions that satisfy all parties involved.

Mike Finley · 09-24-2008, 11:00 PM

When did I say anything about a low price?

I'm perfectly clear on what you are saying. I understand what negotiation means.

Negotiating our services makes about as much sense as a football bat.

You know who else would agree with you about negotiating? Service Magic would be on your side. They made a whole business out of "Getting contractors to compete for your business".

Remodel Bud · 09-24-2008, 11:06 PM

ok. enough. I have invested my life to helping other contractors, have been one myself and it was a national company & i learned a lot. I didn't just do bathrooms in timbucktoo.
teach seminars for free to help contractors learn the biz, on the BBB board and preach ethics, I have spoke nationally for NARI and teach a class at college. If it makes you feel good to try an use slander of service magic or anything else fine, do what makes you happy.