Outside Signs And Building Permits

Amy

When you guys and ladies put signs outside a house you're working on, do you always have a building permit? We've been thinking of getting some signs, but rarely pull a permit for a job. Im afraid that a building inspector is more likely to show up if he sees the sign out front.

Melissa

Not a good idea if you haven't pulled a permit on the job.

marc

Why don't you just start doing things legally? If the job requires a permit.........GET ONE. The customer is paying for it NOT YOU. I never understand a contractor doing a job without a site sign.............Are they trying to keep their company a secret from everyone. Last year we did $267,324 in business from people seeing our site signs. We did another $223,449 in business from our truck signage. Are you driving trucks without signage? If so I believe (no I know) that you are doing your company a giant diservice.

$490,773 from signs and truck lettering...............................WHY would any contractor not want this business?

vinylguy

not to mention that one of the things we talk about and try to get across this website is the fact that we are here cause we do things right from the get go now here is someone saying hey were cheating and don't want anyone to know. can you help me with this come on guys let this girl have it! this is a very unproffessional question one that decieves the customers we try to represent here one that just starts to break down our credibility with the people who look here for professional help. i sure hope someone helps me out with this. hey by the way anyone help me with this i try not to use nails when installing siding but the customer gets suspicious so i thought i would nail the last row at night but then i'm afriad the customer will expect me to nail every row and then that will suck! ha !!! lmao! how silly is thius person sorry but this ? really burns me!

Melissa

Well, in her defense, there are some pretty dumb things that require permits. It gets pretty ridiculous. Sometimes city's and inspectors just want to jerk you around, because they have a power trip. And we all know what a pita it can be to wait for inspectors. It's a waste of our time and a waste of the HO's money- on some occassions, that is, of course I'm not saying that about all building permits that are required, just some.

Melissa

Okay, I'll give you one reason, maybe some people want to stay small. They don't want to have a bunch of added overhead, and insurances, maybe they enjoy doing the work themselves, and can't if they are so busy, maybe they don't want to have their phone ringing off the hook with people who are not serious buyers.

Amy

Theres no need to get hostile. I know its not the proper (or legal) way to do things, but most of our customers absolutely refuse to pay for permits. So, its the option of either insisting on pulling a permit and losing many many jobs to a hack, or sucking it up and doing things the wrong way. It really sucks this way, but we need to have a roof over our heads and food on the table.

On a side note, we are looking to attract a better quality of clientele where everything can be legit and corners don't need to be cut. I would love to have everything done exactly right, but when the customer doesn't want to pay to have things done right, what can you do? It absolutely amazes me that these people would rather have their homes cheaply redone and lose out on quality. I cant tell you how many times we've lost customers because they went with someone without a license and insurance who would do their projects for tens of thousands of dollars less. Why would they want to destroy the homes they've paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for??

Currently, we advertise on Craigslist and a couple of local advestiser things (BIG mistake)! The majority of calls coming in are from people who want low cost with no regard to quality. We plan on advertising next in the Yellow Pages and with some direct mailings. Until then, we do have to eat and we take what we get to get by.

Once again, we're not trying to cheat the system or do things the wrong way. There is a reason my husband got his CSL and for why we have full insurance coverage.

Teetorbilt

You should explain to these clients what it can cost if caught without the proper permits. Here, it's a fine that's about twice what the permit would have coast AND you still have to pull and pay for the permit. Also the inspectors will be on you like fleas on a dog and pull your license if you refuse to play by the rules.

__________________
You can't solve you're problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems.

Albert Einstein

RobertF

Craigslist is not going to produce many people looking to spend the big money for a quality project. All too often it's people looking for big dollar quality for little to nothing. When I'm short on work I'll post there but I'll use almost any other venue first.

__________________
-Robert F

vinylguy

not to mention it sounds like you may want to take a few courses in selling the work cause at thhat piont you will have explained to the customer how important it is to be legit! and by the way on one hand you say they are to cheap to pay for a permit then why would you work for them cause they are probably to cheap to pay you in full. you choose who you work for not visa- versa you'll only be known as the cheap guy to call and that my friend will not put food on the table or roof over the head sounds to me like your working for a pay check and not running a bussiness.

Mike Finley

I could go on about how easy it is to overcome the no-permit issue with customers but to make it short and simple if you want an easy way around it, just make sure the customer knows that whether you get the job or not you're bound by your license to inform the building department about this potential job if it goes forward without permiting by somebody else.

Mike Finley

Melissa, I believe marcs point is that signage is cheap and easy advertising that will make free money. Big money in his case, small money in yours, but free for the taking nonetheless.

George Z

Melissa, in most cases,
a smaller company has bigger overhead per hour
A large company can spread overhead over many available manhours.
And for someone who wants to keep overhead low, Marc's suggestions are best.
Signage is proven to be one of the most cost effective form of advertising.
The more leads coming in the better your pricing.
Of course if someone wants to stay small, you are right, not advertising is best

__________________
Toronto Painters Commercial Painting Commercial Painting Toronto Toronto Office Painters
Painting Toronto Blog

marc

Mellisa,

You have to do what you feel is best for you.
I believe that with that kind of thinking you don't have a business...........you have a job. Most likely a very poor paying job with lots and lots of headaches. (but if that's what you want then go for it) NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.
If you only read one business book .....read the e-myth. Basically he states that there is only one reason why anyone should start a businees and that is to some day sell it and make money. If the business is only you or you and your partner, what is there to sell? Once you leave there is no business.

IMO If your not making more than 6 figures you should just go to work for someone. I have 5 employees that work for me that are making more than that without any headaches.

Grumpy

Marc, I agree with every word you just said. I'm not at 6 figures yet but there is no doubt I will be there soon, and I know that when it comes to retire this business I am building will be worth something to a buyer, more than just the value of it's liquid assets.

Back to the original subject. Let me state that by pulling a permit I know MY ass is covered. I know that if a pesky neighbor who doesn't like the noise I am making calls the bldg deptartment I am not going to have to undo alot of my work to show some inspector something, then redo my work. I know that I am not going to be fined, and yes I the contractor am going to be the one getting the fine, not innocent Mr. Home owner who refuses to pay for the permit.

dougchips

my 2 cents....When I talk to a lead on the phone, one of my questions is: what quality material are you looking to use? If I hear cheap cheap cheap, I get away from the job. Or if they mention e-bay "i found new windows on e-bay for $50 each" good bye. Before I let them go (and I am always polite) I will mention that we only use good quality materials and provide a professional installation, if they are looking for cheap/poor quality materials and a cheap questionable quality installation then there are always hacks waiting in the local HD parking lot. If this (cheap and hacks) is what they are looking for they will generally thank me. If they wake up a realize that you have to pay for quality then we can talk a little more.

My long winded point is that if you pre-screen your customers you can get quality customers that will pay for quality+ they tend to have friends that have the same values......builing better clientèle.

marc

OK...........Here my 2 cents.

I will totally disagree with you. We have one rule in our company that NEVER gets broken. If a customer calls us requesting an estimate.........They are entitled to at least one visit from us. I believe that the only reason you would try to qualify someone is to disqualify them. I can't sell them on quality materials or labor over the phone.

My long winded point is that you sould NEVER try to pre-screen your customers over the phone.

Maybe that's why we don't allow our salesmen to set their own appointments.

Teetorbilt

I'm my own salesman. I own the companies and can make decisions on the spot. I'm also not viewed as some snakeoil salesman. I can make or break the deal on my own terms without a lot of lost time and fanfare.

__________________
You can't solve you're problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems.

Albert Einstein

dougchips

Marc, wow a difference of opinion! What works for one company might not work for the next. By pre-screening leads I turn more of my estimates into jobs. By not wasting time on cheap customers I can focus on good clientèle and hopefully get good leads from them. In the past I would chase any lead, now I value my time and bottom line.

If we all ran our companies the same way with the same results then we would not have much to discuss here.

ProWallGuy

Marc, I hear exactly where you are coming from. But let me flip it around a bit. Would you give the same advise to a small 2-5 man shop, where the owner is still 'in the bucket' at least 50% of the time, if not more? I would think a small biz wouldn't have the time to waste on some leads that don't necessarily fit their company, as compared to a much bigger company that can budget for that downtime (on loser bids) and eat that cost easier.

__________________
Wallpaper Hanger St. Louis
Digital Murals Installation